# Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?



## hertig (Aug 22, 2006)

Wal-Mart, the RVer's friend (at least in those cities which allow it   ) seems to have decided that Christmas is too insulting to support any longer.  I heard a rumor that this year Sam's Club would only carry 'holiday' merchandise, and a call to Wal-Mart seems to confirm this for both Sam's and Wal-Mart.

I find it unfortuate, but understandable, that a handful of what seem to be vocal loonies can wreck things for the silent majority.  I am into big Christmas light displays, and will find it difficult to increase my supplies if Wal-Mart is no longer an option.  However, unless I can find a valid reason why Christmas merchandise is a bad thing, I can no longer shop at Wal-Mart (even if they happen to have 'holiday' lights which are indistiguishable from Christmas lights).

If you find this decision disturbing, you may want to cease being silent and notify Wal-Mart that this decision was unwise, and will cost them some or all of your business as you feel appropriate.    

Of course, if you do find the concept of Christmas merchandise 'offensive', I'd love to find out why.


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## TexasClodhopper (Aug 22, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I find the whole commercial aspect of that time of year 'offensive'.  

I also find all of the so-called 'days of recognition' like Mother's Day and Father's Day equally 'offensive', but not because we shouldn't honor our parents. (We should do that every moment of every day, anyway.)

All of these SPECIAL TIMES AND DAYS have become so commercial that I don't care whether WalMart sells anything at all.

We celebrate these days as they SHOULD be celebrated.


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## onthecoach (Aug 22, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Well...as a Jewish RVer (and there are about 300 of us out here on the road!!) I am offended that Wal-Mart does not carry any Chanuka decorations!  I also agree with Texas above, that ALL of the holidays are now WAY TOO commercial!!!  To start having Halloween stuff in the stores on Labor Day, and Thanksgiving stuff in the store BEFORE Halloween is CRAZY!!!  And the Christmas stuff seems to be out ALL YEAR LONG!!! 

How about a break for those of us who celebrate different holidays???  Why can't the retailers (all of them) excercise a modicum of restraint, dignity and class?!!?!?


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Aug 22, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I agree that everything has gone too commercial.  

Last year Target decided to have "Holiday" items and I did not shop there.  I guess I won't shop Wally World this year.  All this "policical correctness" is rediculious. (guess I spelled that correct)


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## 2SAM (Aug 22, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Guess we won't be Christmas Caroling at yore places then this year, huh ya'll?   Bah Humbug!!!!!!   LOL 
PS I saw Chanuka decor. at our WW, Blue & Gold...correct??? and we're not Jews.... and saw those dradel thingys too, like little tops ya spin,????


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## ARCHER (Aug 22, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I think the world has forgotten what Christmas is really suppose to celebrate.  Maybe that is why there is so much turmoil in the world today.  Imagine what it would be like if we did not do the gift thing and only got on our knees and prayed that day.


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## C Nash (Aug 22, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I also think holidays are to commercial but if you don't like what we do here get out.  Most don't remember what the true meaning of Christmas is anymore. Tired of all this political correctness.  Think this country was founded on religion and believing in God.  Bet no one has a problem with getting that dollar with IN GOD WE TRUST on it.  Young men, women, dads, mothers are dying at this minute for our freedom and I think freedom will be our downfall because we let the minority rule.  I'll still decorate my house or MH whichever we may be at come CHRISTMAS TIME.  Will still exchange gifts (small) at CHRISTMAS.  Think there were some gifts given a long time ago.  This is one time I don't care if I steped on some toes.  My soapbox can get pretty big when it comes to our American way of life.  No not perfect but there is none better here on this earth. We had a judge thrown out because he had a monument with the ten commandments in his building.  He ran for governor and lost and this shows me how far we have moved DOWN toward you know where.  We need moral and honer back in our political system.  Get the Jane fondas out. Throw those in jails that burn Old Glory. Honer and respect our soldiers and quit fighting political correct wars.  Givem **** and go Isreal.   Feel better now MERRY CHRISTMAS


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## turnipbwc (Aug 22, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Texas Clodhopper,
I thought I was the only one who didn't like holidays. Now I see I have a friend. Hats off to you and everyone who is fed up with the holiday garbage. The only good thing about Christmas is the religon part of it. Heck, Halloween is bigger than Christmas and Easter. What's happened to this world?    :disapprove:


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## ARCHER (Aug 23, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Chelse, well said and I applaud  you.  I didn't want to get into all of it, because the majority don't care about it anymore anyway.  
BTH, we will be staying at the PELHAM KOA on the way to Florida in Oct.  Should be there by noon on the 29th of Oct.  Hope we can have coffee that day.  We decided to leave a day early and only drive less than 300 miles per day.....must be getting old.


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## TexasClodhopper (Aug 23, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Turnip42, I'm proud to say also that while my parents were alive that I DID call and talk to them on all of those commercially produced 'holidays', but I called them almost all the time anyway.  And took care of them.  

Hertig, I've been the maverick in our family, because I've spoken out just like you did here.  I used to tell them all, "Stop this madness where you have to give more and bigger gifts every year and on more 'special' days!"  I have one family that has to rent storage space after the season just to keep the 'old' stuff, and they live on credit cards the rest of the year.

Our 'holidays' are conditioning us to be led around like a bunch of lemmings headed for a cliff.  Whatever your faith, I think you should take back control and get out of the commercial rut being thrust at you.  That doesn't mean that I don't celebrate our seasons in a traditional way, I just keep control and try to remember the 'reason for the season.'


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## deniloo (Aug 23, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?



While I agree wholeheartedly that the commercialism has taken over, I don't think not shopping at one store is going to change anything. I wish we could send Chelse and that soap box to the lawn of the White House and make someone*REALLY* listen to the majority. We want *GOD* in our schools and in our government. That is what made America and the lose of it is what is going to break America. Merry Christmas to all!


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## dennis1949 (Aug 23, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

What is bad is here in Decatur Alabama we have some stores who have already decorated for Christmas


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## DL Rupper (Aug 23, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

The problem is the political left has put PC pressure on all the STORES to call it Holiday decorations/gifts instead of Christmas decorations and gifts.  What do we do, boycott all of the stores.  Personally I still like the lower prices Wal-Mart has continued to have over the years.  Thank God for Wally World.  It has saved me thousands over the years so I guess I can overlook their PC.  I really mean thousands$$$$$$$.  At Christmas time I will shop at the stores that still call it Christmas if I can afford to.  The rest of the year Wal-Mart will be my savior in retirement.  Does anyone have a good e-mail address/link that we can express our displeasure direct to Wal-Mart? 
:  :evil:


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## hertig (Aug 23, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

The statements that the holdays are way too commercialized are right on.  There is nothing we can do about that, but celebrate the holidays in our own ways.  But allowing the stores to bend to the pressure of a few will just increase the rate of slide downwards (and we are nearly in free fall already...).  This we can attempt to battle, by showing the stores that bend that the majority can outspend the minority (and be more pleasant, to boot .  So I choose to boycott those companies who bow to minority pressure.  Useless?  Maybe, maybe not, but in any case, it is what I can do.  

After the 'holiday' season is over, certainly this stance can be re-evaluated.  A crummy 'holiday' season may encourage less 'political correctness' next year.

As for the contact information for Wal-Mart, go here:  http://www.afa.net/Petitions/IssueDetail.asp?id=208
That will send an email to Doug McMillon (president of Sam's Club).  At the bottom of this page (reproduced below) is the contact information for Rob Walton.  You can also call 1-800-WalMart.

Rob Walton, Chairman 
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. 
702 Southwest 8th Street
Bentonville, AR  72716 
Primary Phone: 1-800-925-6278
Fax: 479-277-2473
E-Mail: Rob Walton (letters@wal-mart.com), Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.


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## DL Rupper (Aug 23, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

hertig, thanks for the e-mail addresses.  I sent 2 e-mails tonight.  I might add that is pretty good for a Jack Mormon.  Chritsmas is Christmas.  All this PC crap is pure crap.


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## SnowbirdInFlight (Aug 23, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Well said Chelse! ITA with everything you said. *snaps fingers* "You go man!"  :laugh:


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Aug 23, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I sent my letter, thanks for the e-mail address.


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## deniloo (Aug 23, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I bet that inbox is smokin' tonight! My letters are sent too!


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## deniloo (Aug 24, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Also sent the page out in my email.....might not help but made me feel better!


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## stacey'stitan (Aug 25, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Wow! What a subject!! You know, JESUS is the REASON for the season, GOD is the reason for ALL. Without HIM, nobody would be around to argue about whether HE's real or not! The  :evil: sure has done a number on an awful lot of the world, and the retail business is his playground. Thank goodness GOD will win in the end no matter what!


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I also think it is hilarious about the controversy over Christmas.  Guess that is what really makes this nation great, we can all have our own thoughts and ways of doing things as long as they don't encroach upon someone else's rights.  "Accustom to trampling on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence, and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises amoung you."  Abraham Lincoln 1858.  And if you don't know what that means you should be ashamed of yourself for following the tyrants.  Why should we have the Ten Commandments in the court house?  There are only two of them that are illegal in this country.  Thou shall not Kill and Thou shall not Steal.  You want to have sex with your neighbors wife, It's not a crime, unless you get caught and he kills you, You want to call your mother and father all kinds of bad names and live off them until they die, not a problem.  You want to use the Lord's name in vain or play golf on Sunday instead of going to church, Have a good time.  You want to put a statue in your yard or wave a flag that you can bow down too, go ahead, no one cares what your priorities are.  And you can slander anyone you want to as long as you are politically correct.  Forget about the Golden Rule unless it means someone else is suppose to do something nice for you.  Me first attitudes are what built this great nation and we should punish all those lazy Poor People that get in our way.

I was amused a couple years ago when Wal-mart was closed on Christmas Day, Saturday, but opened early on Sunday, the Lord's Day in this country, so that shoppers could take advantage of After Christmas sales and return unwanted gifts.  Talk about the Money Changers in the Temple.  What ever happened to those Great Blue Laws we use to have?  Oh, that's right, they got in the way of the Profit Margin.  Can't have that, can we?

I celebrate Christmas the way it should be celebrated.  I give money to feed the poor, I donate to my church, and I help my fellow man whenever I can.  And I do it all year long.  Just like Jesus did.  Before you get upset about Christmas or any other holiday you should study it's origin.  You might not like what you find.  Just like the origin of Halloween.  Now we have people who spend more money on Halloween decorations than they do on Christmas.  But it is a Free Country because we all contribute in some way to it being free.  But if they put up Halloween decorations on the Baptist church next to my house I am going to have a talk with the Pastor.  

Love diversity.  And I have a tendency towards Sarcasm.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

And all that stuff about the left putting pressure on stores to do away with Christmas, or Merry Christmas, or the religious aspects of Christmas is just Bill O'Reilly's lying crap.  There are to many other things in this country and this world to worry about with out spending time putting pressure on stores to sell or not sell holiday decorations.  Why don't people just go to church?  When I was a boy we use to take a sled out across the snow covered hills and find a cedar tree, we didn't have pines, cut it down, put it in a metal bucket with gravel in it, place it in the living room of the farm house, string up pop corn and make chains out of construction paper, and put on one string of lights.  Then we would all load up in a car and go around singing Christmas carols to our neighbors who would come out with hot chocolate and cookies.  Then we would have a Christmas play at church and everyone would get a sack with apples, oranges, home made chocolate candy, and nuts.  And we all said "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays"  because New Years was only a week away.

So all this right, left, liberal, conservative, red, blue, etc. etc. etc. is just another way to divide this nation so the people can be enslaved a lot easier.  You better get back to watching what is really going on in this nation or you will be going to Wal-mart with your Script to buy food just like the Coal Miners did at the Company stores.  A Nation divided against itself cannot stand.  If you ain't rich you better get your head out your butte.


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## DL Rupper (Aug 26, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Blah,blah,blah. Bill O'Rielly is great.  Long live Rush.  Why do you think the stores are all taking the word Christ out of Christmas.  It certainly isn't the right doing it.  Wake up and smell the roses while you still can.  Next thing you know roses won't be politically correct because they smell good and people enjoy them. :approve:


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## ARCHER (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Come on Ron, don't start about being poor again, please


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Who ever said I was poor.  I just don't buy into the right wing propaganda.  Ever study history?  Where do you think Veterans Benefits came from? Certainly wasn't the right wing chicken hawks like Druggy Limbaugh or Lying O'Reilly or the fools who control the government now.  I just don't buy this idea that the wealthiest American are the only Americans and we owe them our undying devotion.  Did you know that income taxes were first established for the wealthiest Americans to pay?  Who pays most of them now?  When the current bunch took over 1 in a 1000 of the wealthiest didn't pay a dime in taxes.  That number is now 1 in 400.  Do you think it will ever get to your level?  Don't hold your breath.  

I also don't accept the idea that everyone who believes that this nation is One Nation Under God is a conservative.  And what has been so Conservative about the last 6 years?  You call 3 trillion dollars of new debt being Conservative?  2600+ killed and 20,000+ wounded of America's bravest military in a war fabricated from lies are a call to Conservative Glory?  Not every soldier dying in Iraq is a right wing Republican.  One of the symbols of America is the Bald Eagle.  How would that great bird ever fly if it had only one wing?  So if you cut off either wing it is dead.  I am glad there are others like me to provide a balance.  Talk about silent majority, it certainly isn't the right wing.

Like I said, the issue of abolishment of Christmas being caused by some left wing pressure on retailers is crap.  It isn't happening, it ain't going to happen, and never will happen.  Not while those same retailers can make an Almighty Dollar off people who believe Christmas means buying things that people don't want for people who don't appreciate it.

I been down your road and it doesn't go anywhere.

And I don't shop at Wal-mart anyway.  I always take time to smell the roses, I just don't bury my head in the sand.  And if you think I should get a life, let me assure you I have one and it isn't based on someone else telling me what to think.  

And while your at it, if you have a Bible, look up Zacharia in the old Testament and read Chapter 7 beginning with the 8th verse.  Then come back and tell me you think my position about how America treats its poor and middle class is all left wing rhetoric.

So now that is off my chest.  I will continue to post on this website if I can help someone solve a problem.  But if you think that only your opinion counts and that I shouldn't add my 2 cents worth on a discussion thread like this you are sadly mistaken.  I pay my dues!

And one last point...Ever hear the saying, "Corporation have no Body to be punished or Soul to be Damned!"  Why is it that we think giving tax breaks and subsidies to Corporations is good business for America?  What have we gotten in return?  Don't complain the next time you fill up with diesel or gas or pay higher fees to camp.  That is just the American way.  

Have a great day and travel safe.  God I feel great!


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Rupper:  You mean that one day we are going to celebrate Mas on the 25th of December?  Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas.  Isn't this still August, where did I put that calendar.  Man I love this stuff!


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## TexasClodhopper (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Perhaps it is time to remind EVERYONE that this is an RV forum; not a DEBATE forum.  Take it somewhere else.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Texas Clodhopper, you are just so cool.  I wish I could meet you someday and let you find out I am not just some outspoken liberal.  We could share a lot of laughs.  I use to love going to Wichita Falls, Texas.  I was there one time after they had a rain storm and their waterfall looked like chocolate milk.  Great place to live.  I hope everyone gets your message.  Merry Christmas in August.


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## TexasClodhopper (Aug 26, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

There's room for a lot more of you guys here in Texas.  Come on down!


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## DL Rupper (Aug 27, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Gee Ron, I'm glad you got it off your chest.  I feel better already.  Too bad the rest of us can't have an opinnion without getting slammed.  I'm am an agnostic so don't get me confused with the religious right.  I just like to keep the traditional name Christmas.  I believe in our history as a nation, Christmas came first as a December holiday before we were force fed all of the other ones.  I really don't care much what you celebrate, but I wish this PC crap would stop.  This country was founded on Christian principles and verbage.  Leave well enough alone.  Like I said, I'm a Jack Morman/agnostic so I don't have a religious ax to grind, and I certainly didn't start this thread.  I only expressed an opinion. 

This rich vs poor doesn't hack it either.  I just know who taxes me the most.  If I remember correctly redistribution of wealth has never worked.  Oh, by the way, the middle class not the rich now own the majority of stock (businesses) in the US.  

There now it's off my chest.  Peace be with you and I hope you have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS. :laugh:


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 27, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Don't mistake my sarcasm as slamming you.  And you are wrong if you think the Democrats taxed you the most.  Reagan was not a Democrat nor was Bush I.  Clinton did not raise taxes on the poor or lower middle class.  And he had a Republican Congress to deal with too.  And as far as that socialist entitlement called Social Security, why is it so wrong for a government of the people, by the people, and for the people to provide a small insurance program that will supplement the income of people who are getting to old to work.  There are literally millions of older Americans, many of them Veterans, who could not exist independently without that small check each month.  Funny thing is, every time I hear someone bad mouth Social Security as a Socialist Program I also never hear them say they send the darn check back every month. 

And I don't believe in re-distribution of the wealth either.  I just think that if a man or woman does a job they should be paid a "living wage" not held to slave wages while the Corporation Exec's light cigars with $100.00 bills.  We are standing right now in the same position this country was in back in the early 1900's.  And there is nothing to stop it from happening again.  Have you noticed the "Dust Bowl" conditions in the midwest states?  The only difference now is that a lot of those poor people have the where with all to fight back.  And that "have vs have-not" war has been predicted by a lot more intelligent people than I. 

And a study of our Founding Fathers shows that a lot of them were Diest.  In other words, they believed in God, but they believed He formed the world, created man and woman, and then left us alone to make it on our own.  And if we are going to have Christian principles in the this country then lets not pick and choose which principles they are going to be.  And if that isn't true why are our churches empty on every Sunday and the golf courses full?

Peace to you too, My Brother.  And with 11 grandkids I am guaranteed a very Merry Christmas.


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## DL Rupper (Aug 27, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Hey Ron, now that I know you worked for GM I get a better picture of your politics.  I too worked for a union in a copper mine and at one time was a union shop steward at a government enity.   So I can say been there done that.  However, later in life I became part of mangement and my thought process took a somewhat different turn.
Actually after I retired from the government I worked in a GM plant in Dayton, OH,  as the mail room supervisor, so I also have an understanding of the GM union employee.  I hate to say this, but I took the job in the plant to finish off my Social Security quarters (40).   Government employees, in the past, did not qualify for Social Security.  Will now step up to the socialist money troff in 2008.

Anyhow, now that I understand your background better, I will forgive your transgressions. :approve: 

Lets get off this foolishness now that we have had our fun.  You do have good RV advice.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 27, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I agree with getting off the subject, but don't necessarily consider it foolishness.  So you will know my real background I retired as an International Representative of the United Auto Workers Union.  And I also know the sins of unions along with their strengths.  But when I was the big fish in the little bowl I was a proponent of education for the workers.  I helped negotiate educational programs through public adult education, community college, and universities to train workers for jobs outside the auto industry.  The hand writing was on the wall.  But a lot of that training and education benefitted General Motors Corporation.   When they shifted some of the jobs to computer operated robots we had skilled people ready and trained to step in and maintain those robots.

What has bothered me about this whole right/left wing issue is the advantage it has given one group of people, namely the super rich and greed, the opportunity to divide the middle class and working poor against itself.   The Christmas issue is just one nail in the coffin, so to speak.  I am not against people being rich, I have made pretty good money myself, but I do decry the injustice of companies like Wal-mart paying their employees, regardless of year of service, a sub-standard slave wage and not allowing them to work 40 hours a week in order to keep them from receiving benefits mandated under that work schedule.  Yet those same Wal-mart employees are forced to go to Social Services and apply for food stamps, medicare, and medicaid to take care of their family.  And that is paid for through our tax dollars.

Survival is the most basic of human instinct.  I read post on this website about someone stealing gas and license plates.  I understand the anger that the victim suffers because I have had things stolen from me, including a truck that was three payments from being paid for and was told I would never see again by the police.  But when I talked about the war between the "Have's and Have-not's" you can look at this type of activity and see the beginning of that war.  The real have not's are not going to attack the people who live in mansions in gated communities, they are going to attack us because we "Have" a little more than they do.  And it will escalate from there.

When I said what I did about where America is standing today it isn't just about the nation being divided.  If you study history it was divided in similiar fashion back in the beginning of the 1900's between the filthy rich and the dirt poor.  But the other issue is one you and I both share.  As Veterans.  After WWI a group of Veteran's marched on Washington DC demanding benefits they had been promised during the war.  The governments response under Herbert Hoover was to send out the National Guard to dispell the protestor.  Gunfire erupted and a number of Veteran's and their families were killed and wounded.  In response the Veteran's Administration was established, only it wasn't called that at the time, as a real government cabinet position.  Before that they had a Veteran's Committee made up of members of Congress from both sides of the aisle and Veteran's petitioned for redress.  But the Veteran's Administration didn't do much until FDR enhanced it to include mortgage assistance, medical assistance, educational opportunities etc.

So as you and I travel down the highways and byways of this great nation there are others who can't even afford to take a weekend trip once a year.  Is that what our democracy promised them?  Does that mean they choose to be poor?  Or are they just lazy and stupid?  Wouldn't it be much wiser to at least require those who benefit  the most from the labors of the many to pay something towards the rebuilding of the infrastructure of this country, to rebuild and maintain the schools and halls of higher education so that even the poorest amoung us could afford to better themselves?  And what was this crap that came out about "You go to war with the Army you have!"  We attacked them, wouldn't it have been wiser to make sure our soldiers, sailors, air force, and marines had the best equipment our nation could provide before we went to war?  And where is Bin Laden?   But instead we get rhetoric and issues that don't mean a hill of beans.  Personally, I could care less if George plays with Dicks colon.  I have never seen a man that I wanted to be with more than my wife.  And God will deal with them anyway so I don't have to.

Guess I have said enough, not that I have said everything.  I was sitting in church this morning and got to thinking about these post.  According to the number of people who have read them I don't think you or I are going to make a great deal of difference in the world as we know it.


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## DL Rupper (Aug 27, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Ron, Amen to us not making a difference.  Actually I worked for Wal-Mart for 3 weeks before I went to work at the GM plant that became a Delphi plant (car/truck a/c compressors) and now is closed.  Anyway Wal-Mart provides the masses with cheap mechandise/food so who's to say where the money is best located.  With the workers in the form of wages or with the buyers ability to buy more merchandise at lower costs.  In Wal-Marts case, I think there are far more low income buyers who benefit the most.
Wal-Mart will close it's doors if forced to pay the high union labor costs/benefits and then all of the low income Wal-Mart customers will be penalized. 

My first introduction with unions was in 1965 when I went to work at Kennecott Copper in Magna, UT and was told by the militant shop steward as I walked in the door, "You work for the United Mine Workers not Kennecott and don't ever forget it".  I never have.  I had no choice wheather or not to join the union, it was a matter of living to see the next day accident free. 
Bottom Line:  Kennecott Copper automated and replaced 90% of the workers do to high labor costs/benefits.
Delphi (GM Plant) closed the car air conditioner  plant in Dayton,OH do to high labor costs/benefits

I do take the Left/Right issue seriously and I'm sure you and I will never agree on on todays hot issues, but I have fun on the forum adding my 2 cents worth occasionally.  Ok, quite often.  However, this is my last posting on this subject, as I'm sure  everyone is bored to death and would like to get back to RV'ing issues.  Take care and have fun RV'ing.  Life is short and we need to spend all time we have left traveling down the highway when possible.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 27, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Yea, except I think Wal-mart Corporation would do just as well with $40 billion a year in Profits as they do with $80 billion.  And some of that $40 they don't make could be used to pay their employees better.

And the reason Delphi closed was not because of high labor cost.  It closed because of foreign competition taking GM market share.  And if the Right to Work (Payless) Committee can totally destroy the unions then the workers in those foreign transplants are going to stop receiving the benefits they do now because of the unionized domestic plants.  And if American workers had National Health Plan like they do in Japan, German, England, every other industrialized nation in this world, then maybe the industry could have competed on a more level playing field.  Seems the workers always pay for poor management decision.  Enron is a prime example of that.  "Corporations have no Body to be Punished, nor Soul to be Damned!"  I'm bored too.

Ron


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## DL Rupper (Aug 27, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Not  A National Health Plan now.  Good golly look at the economies of the Countries you just named.  They all pay exorbitant taxes.  Super high unemployment.  The youth can't get jobs.  You keep digging a deeper hole.  Delphi is shutting down everywhere because all the past union demands are driving them into backruptcy.  You can't sell cars if the price of the car includes 50 years of pension plans and wages for unskilled labor that are as high as the wages of college graduates.  Ford is next.

I'm sorry but when I worked at the union run mine, nobody worked more than 1 hour in an 8 hour shift.  Kennecott could not fire anyboby unless the union agreed.  Well nobody has jobs anymore.  Only the operators of the automated machines and their repairman have jobs.  They are highly trained not unskilled labor.  You have to pay individuals for what they know.  Unskilled labor is a thing of our past.

Wal-Mart employees always vote against the unions.

I know I said I was through, but come on a National Health Plan.  Ask Canadians how well that works and at what cost.   I promise this is my last post on this subject :evil:


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## TexasClodhopper (Aug 27, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I suppose that somewhere this is about RVing?


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## DL Rupper (Aug 28, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Hey Texas Clodhopper, No, it's all about Wal-Mart.  Did I lose the thread.  I thought I used Wal-Mart in each of my replies. :clown:  :bleh:  :approve:  :laugh:
I guess Ron and I got carried away like you and bazzer do sometimes.  Sorry!


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## Kirk (Aug 28, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Wal-Mart is still the most RV friendly store around, and the employees that I know who work for them need to talk with Ron so that they will stop being so pro the company and understand just how bad off they are!


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## TexasClodhopper (Aug 28, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

DL Rupper & Ron, sorry if I lost the connection to RVing after all of the old home week of ex-GM union employees and corporation bashing.

Actually, I'm a corporation myself and WalMart still likes me, because their employees still smile at me when I come in.  I especially like the little ole lady greeter at my local WalMart.

I've bought lots of RV 'stuff' from them, because they advertised 'Made in America' so much years ago.  Well, that went out the window long ago, too.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 28, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I guess you should ask all the Mom and Pop stores that closed down because a Wal-mart moved in about how great they are for the US economy.  And I don't really think employees will open their mouth about Wal-mart or they will be fired.  And Rupper, you are wrong about the Unions defending bad workers.  The Company hired them and there is a US Supreme Court Ruling called the Duty of Fair Representation that says if a Union doesn't represent a worker, union dues paying or not, then he can sue the union.  Anyone ever think about the idea that maybe, just maybe, the corporations have given up their rights to run their companies?  So they can blame it on the workers?  And you worked in that mine, Rupper, were you one of the people who only worked an hour out of 8?  And who let those people get in that habit?  How did it get in that condition?  I worked in a GM factory for over 20 years and I don't remember anyone sitting around doing nothing unless it was the tradespeople.  And if they were sitting down it was because the machines were making parts.  I am afraid you are like a lot of other people in this country who bought in to the Lazy American hype put out by the Right to Work organization.  Which is actually a Right to Pay Less bunch.  So I guess the right thing to do would be to give up our pensions, send our Social Security checks back to Washington, and get the politicians to do away with taxes all together.  Then we could all live in Old Folks houses like they did back before Social Security and just sit around waiting to die.

And the economys of those other countries aren't as bad as the economy of this country.  You ever study the educational systems they have in Japan or Germany?  Maybe you haven't noticed the news about the number of foreclosures going up and the number of bankruptcies that are occurring.  And since I was directly involved in what happened at GM and Delphi let me assure you it wasn't the pay of the workers that caused the decline it was the loss of market share.  GM use to sell 25% of the cars Made in the USA.  Now that number is less than 10%.  But just keep ignoring it, that way you will be completely surprised when the US economy goes straight down the toilet.  It won't affect me cause I am an old man and don't have a whole lot of good years left.  But I love my young grandkids and hoped that they would have a better life than I do.  That is just not in their future if things keep going the way they are.  

I still don't shop at Wal-mart.  I would rather pay a dollar more at the little hardware store in my town than contribute to the greedy billionaires bank account.  And it is a fact that the workers there qualify for Medicare, Medicaid, and Food stamps.  Your tax dollars at work.  And just a little tid bit of info.  When Clinton was in he and the Republican Congress came up with a plan called Welfare to Work.  If a person was on Welfare they had to do something to get off.  They could go to school, work at a low paying job to get experience, and prove they didn't want to continue on welfare.  Well, guess what, the current administration scrapped that idea.  Now it is back to the way it was before.  And there are more white people on welfare than any other ethnic group.

Pick it apart, it is my last post in this diatribe.


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## DL Rupper (Aug 28, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Hey Ronnie, you are getting a little personal, but yes I worked however long the union told me to.  Remember I was told the day I hired on that the United Mine Workers were in charge.  They controlled how much ore we ran through the crushers on a given shift.  I was 21 years old with a wife and son to support.  I wasn't about to buck the union in a mine mill envrionment.  Things happened to people that bucked the union.  I worked in operations re-rating on the higher paid jobs because the alcoholics  that actually held the jobs wouldn't show up for weeks on end and the company couldn't fire them, so I got paid at a higher rate to do their job.  Lucky me.  

For your information the good old USA is the economic engine that is powering the world economy at the present.  I defy you to name a major country with a lower jobless rate than our 4.8%.    Oh and don't go into the union song and dance about how all the jobs are low paying jobs.  I don't know anybody who is getting paid minium wage.  Even McDonalds pays higher than minium.  

Our automobile companies will never be on an equal playing field as long as the union  unskilled laborers keep getting paid at rates equal to college graduates and technical skilled employees.  Notice I'm talking unskilled labor not skilled labor.  People should be paid for what they know and what they can do.

I like to think positively of the USA.  Not negatively like all of the doomsdayers that don't have a positve thing to say.  You know the type.  Anyway Wal-Mart people are happy people.  I don't see them lining up to  vote for the unions in any of the stores.  Speaking of the mom and pop stores that are closed when Wal-Mart moves to town, how about all the new restrarants, Home Depots, Lowes, Kohls and service stations not to mention strip malls that move in next door to Wal-Mart.  I see thriving economies spring up when Wal-Mart comes to town.  More of that think positive attitude I guess.  Touche.

The problemI :approve:  :approve:  :approve:


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 28, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Yea, I guess.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 28, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I just never stopped to realize how good everyone will have it when we all make $7.50 an hour and can only work 35 hours a week.  And for your information, auto workers in Japan make more than American auto workers and they are all unionized.  Same thing in Germany.  Like I said, I guess we will just have to do something about those over paid US Auto Workers.  After all it is only fair that the Japanese transplants pay the same pay rate as the unionized domestic plants.  So when we can cut the union pay we should be able to cut the non-union pay to and everyone can benefit from the lower wages.  Just think, they will be able to pay lower taxes too.  Wonder what that engine is going to run on.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 28, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

You know Rupper, I didn't mean to get so personal.  I just happen to be the type of person who believes that every person has a value.  Everyone contributes to the plan.  Instead of those unskilled people taking a pay cut, why don't we raise the pay of those other unskilled people so they can afford to own nice things like we do.  Is that being pessimistic?  I just seems to me that we have been going backwards in the country instead of forward.  Look at the schools, the roads, the number of people in prisons, the destruction of the family.  How can you have a stable family when the dad has to work two jobs and the mom has to work outside the home too?  I live in an area of the country where there are any number of people living in old single wide mobile homes on property that belonged to their grandfathers.  Is that hope?  And the largest Wal-mart in the USA is a 25 minute drive from my house.  

So I didn't mean anything personal.  I have been on the front lines.  Watched grown men cry when they lost everything they had over some stupid management decision.  Just like in your mine.  If I remember my history there was also a problem with the trailings from that mine poluting the rivers, streams, and wells in that area of the country.  Plus the demand for copper dropped when they started making electric wire out of aluminum.  Yes it was wrong for the union to be running the company.  But the company must have found that they could still make money while letting the union have that power.  In the auto plants up until 1981 the union only represented about 5% of the people.  We changed that.  In the first year after we implimented an Absentee Program 145 people were fired.  But when they were fired the "i"s were dotted and the "t"s were crossed on the documentation for their discharge.  It didn't solve the problem though because General Motors management kept going down the wrong road.   They never saved a dime for a rainy day.  

I know this thread has bothered some folks.  Sorry about that.  But I am one of those workers who believes that everyone should be able to afford to own a travel trailer, fifth wheel, or motorhome to go camping with their families.  I don't think it should be limited to a few luck people who were born with hope.  Hope in this great nation belongs to everyone and people who make $7.50 in this economy don't get to share in that hope.  Jesus said the poor will always be with us.  He never said to create more poor people.

Anyone know what the best wax is for the end panels on a motorhome?  I used some new synthetic stuff but I still get streaks.


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## DL Rupper (Aug 28, 2006)

RE: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Peace brother, I use Protect All Fiberglass Oxidation Remover and  Color Restorer or Gel Gloss Heavy Duty RV Cleaner & Wax on my 5'er.  If your motorhome has a metal finish I would use a good car wax like Myers.  Not sure if anything will keep the blackstreaks off.  I extended the rain spouts on my RV with clear tubing cut down the middle and silicon glued to the RV rain spout.


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 29, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

I did the same thing with 1/2 inch pvc.  I took an elbow and cut the back out of it so it slipped over the gutter and then put a small nipple about 2" long extended out.  Worked great but I lost one when I was messing with the slide toppers.

One last point on something you said during our post.  About the 4.8% unemployment.  When the current  admin took over in the first two years after he was appointed, there were over 6,000,000 jobs lost in the USA.  Unemployment went to 15%.  Then along came 9/11 and things changed.  Since then the employment rolls of the government have quadrupled.  So much for small government.  And when Reagan was President he changed the way unemployment was counted.  He included the military in the employment rolls.  If the military was taken out of the equation the unemployment rate would have been about 25% which is what it was at the peak of the Great Depression.  Now, figure in the National Guard men and women who have been called up to fight in Afgan and Iraq.  They had to be replaced on thier jobs.  In some cases by two people because of the training the Guards people had that the new employees didn't .
If the Guard was released from duty and returned to the US to take back their jobs that unemployment rate would rise.

I will use your suggestion about the wax.  It is fiberglass.  I think everyone else has given up on our post.  It has been fun. :laugh:


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## TexasClodhopper (Aug 29, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

Man, will it ever stop?


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## rlmurraysr59 (Aug 31, 2006)

Re: Wal-Mart anti-Christmas?

You have to admit, Texas Clodhopper, it was fun.  Yea, I stopped after this response to you.  I promise.


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