# Reasonable legal assistance



## Iris Leuntjens (Nov 7, 2003)

We are in the process of 'unloading' our 2003 motorhome due to tremendous problems.  The manufacturer will not help with an extended warranty, and we can not reasonably purchase one due to excessive problems.  We are going to loose our savings just to get rid of this motorhome, and no one seems to be able to help.  There is no lemon law in Iowa on motorhomes, states attorney, and consumer protection more or less says we are on our own.  Does anyone know of someone we can talk to without spending a lot more money?  Thank you in advance.


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## C Nash (Nov 7, 2003)

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Iris Leuntjens
I don't understand why you need an extended warrenty.  A 2003 should still be covered under the manufactures warrenty.  What kind of problems have you had?  Don't care to know the manufacture.


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## Iris Leuntjens (Nov 7, 2003)

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Chelse,  Thanks for replying.  Our warranty is up in December 2003.  Every window, both slides, and the windshield leak water.  The windshield has pulled away from the frame, over 1/2 iin in some places.  The pipes were not hooked up under the sink, and ruined the carpet.  The shower leaks and stinks.  The commode has to be over half full in order to flush down.  The gas pedal has broken, and the ABS light goes on and off.  The CO detector goes off whenever it wants, the microwave has been replaced, there is a short in the wiring, and is creating havoc with the lights and the batteries.  These are current problems, it has been in the shop 14 times in ten mos.  The motorhome only has 7k miles on it, as it does not leave the shop long enough to travel.  We are starting a new list as we speak, and we just picked it up two days ago.  We are both medically disabled and it seems that no one cares.
Thank you very much, Iris


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## C Nash (Nov 8, 2003)

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WOW, I sure feel for you Iris.  Be sure and keep all records showing the problems you have had with this MH. Even if warranty runs out existing problems should be corrected. Shame what these unit cost and then we can't get the problem repaired. All makes have lemons and sure sounds as though you got one. Has the manufactur offered any help?  Has the dealer repaired any of the problems? Have you called your state senators ha ha know you will receive help there but, make all these calls and document everything. Maybe they can at least advise you toward some kind of help. Might try a search on the MH brand and see if maybe some others are having the same problems.  If so, a class action suit might be in order. Keep us posted and good luck


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## Iris Leuntjens (Nov 8, 2003)

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Chelse,  We do have all documents, e-mails, pictures etc.  I called the manufacturer to see if they would at least give us an extended warranty, and they said "NO".  They did offer to give us a phone # of somewhere we could purchase a warranty, however they said 'I doubt if they would sell you one with all of the problems you have.'  I have contacted the consumer protection dept, and they gave me a phone #.  When I called that the attorney said he would want $20k up front.  We do not have that kind of money, as we put everything in the motorhome to keep the payments down.  I explained that we both were ill, and bought the m/h in good faith to travel while we could, and they would not even reply.  Can I put this in the regular forum, to see if anyone else knows anything?  Thanks again, Iris


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## ARCHER (Nov 8, 2003)

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Iris,
Really sorry about your problems.  I guess the biggest thing that would upset me is that the Manufacturer has basically left you out in the cold.
If I had similar problems, I think what I might do is get in touch (Directly) with the CEO of the company that made the motorhome.  Many times the CEO will help with things like this.....if they know about it.  A lot of times, the people below them don't want to have to tell them, WE GOT A LEMON, so they never find out. See if you can find the CEO's name and how to contact them directly.  If the CEO won't help, I don't know what to tell you.
Good Luck.....and hope it all turns out ok for you.
PS....I'd ask the CEO to replace the motorhome and not fix it...  :angry:


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## C Nash (Nov 9, 2003)

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Iris,
have youu tried contacting some of the magazines action lines such as Motor Home.  they seem to have a lot of clout with the manufactures.  I would also do as Archer suggested and try the CEO. I don,t think the moderators would mind you putting this in the regular forum.


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## Iris Leuntjens (Nov 9, 2003)

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Archer & Chelse,  I am giving your ideas another try.  I have sent multiple messages to Monaco in the past, but they only seem to go to the tech people.  I did not know how far I could go with notifing anyone, you know how weird the law is.  We do not want the motorhome replaced, all we are asking is for our money back.  We understand that is probably not going to happen, but it will sure assist with the additional medical bills this has created.  Thank you very much for listening to me.  Iris


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## Iris Leuntjens (Nov 9, 2003)

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Archer, Thank you for your concern, but we would not take another HR product even if it was free.  We are in the process of trading it, for the balance due, on a Newmar fifth wheel and truck.  We are looking forward to this transaction.  I do feel sorry for whomever purchases this home, as since we picked it up four days ago(from being repaired for leaking)three new leaks have come up, including one that has been fixed before.  We are prepared to take our beating and go forward.  We are not mentally capable of having anything else ruined by leaks.  Thank you once again, Iris


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## RML714 (Nov 20, 2003)

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Iris, 

It sounds like you should go after the dealer you purchased your RV from. Get ahold of the owner and call him every day. Park in front of his store and put lemons on your vehicle. Call a local tv/radio station and see if they have a consumer affairs reporter. Contact the BBB, they will (may) arbitrate your case. Email the President of the manufacturer. You can write to the consumer RV magazines but the odds of getting a letter published and the time it will take to get a response will take forever. Start local and don't sell to anyone you know. Good luck.


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## Looie (Nov 30, 2003)

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Iris, do a search using "motorhomes, federal lemon laws". There does appear to be federal lemon laws.


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## medic1 (Dec 1, 2003)

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Am terribly sorry for your misfortune. I hope you did a VERY thorough exam of your new 5er BEFORE you took possession.


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## Krazeehorse (Dec 2, 2003)

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I think I would also shop around for another attorney.  I feel very confident that you will be able to find competent legal assistance for much less than the $20K that your first contact asked for.


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## Adamthegreat (Dec 19, 2003)

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good day.


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## Iris Leuntjens (Dec 20, 2003)

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When we were at the dealership getting rid of our Monaco, another couple were there doing the same thing.  There HR motorhome was only a couple of months older than ours, and they said someone at Monaco asked them not to call anymore because they were going to do nothing to help them.  
In another forum, I visited with another couple that was getting the TV channel to come out and talk to them about there new HR motorhome.  Monaco refused to help them also.
I do understand that lemons can come from any company.  But Monaco NEEDS to start to care about the people that purchase there products.
We are n our Newmar fifth wheel now and it is fantastic.  We have had it for five weeks and no problems at all.  That beats Monaco hands down.  By the way, when I called about our warranty on the Newmar, the rep I talked to recognized my name, as he came from Monaco.  He stated he was very happy to make the move.  Wonder why?????
Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and concerns, maybe the future will be a little more sunny.
Happy Holidays,  Iris


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## C Nash (Dec 20, 2003)

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Merry Christmas and happy Holidays to you Iris.
Sorry if the Christmas offends anyone but I still believe. 
Great to hear that the Newmar has made you happy and giving no problems.  Newmar puts out a great product.  Maybe the rep from Monaco got fired because he did not give you service and he is happy Newmar hired him  :laugh: .
Is Iris Leuntjens your real name?  I would like to contact Monaco and hear their side.  Most all Monaco campers I have talked with have been very pleased with product and service from Monaco.  One of the reasons I purchased a HR. Did like the Newmar products and warrenty but could not find a floor plan I wanted.


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## Iris Leuntjens (Dec 20, 2003)

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Hi Chelese,
I am very happy to hear 'Christmas' in public, I do not want to offend anyone either, but I should not have to feel like I can't say such a beautiful thing as 'Christmas'.  So thank you, as I believe also.
Yes, my real name is Iris Leuntjens, and my husband is Michael.  If you would like the coach # I will be happy to send it to you.  I would be very happy to hear what Monaco had to say to justify not giving us an extended warranty after all that we went through.  I will be happy to supply work orders, pictures, letters, e-mails or anything else you may want.
Thanks again, and Merry Christmas, Iris


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## C Nash (Dec 21, 2003)

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Iris,I would like to have the information if you could e-mail it to me.  Probably want respond to me about another problem but, would like to hear what they would say myself.  Maybe if they see orhers are reading these they will at least make attempts to satisfy their customers.  No reaason we should have to do without our rvs for months.  Most car dealers have to supply loaners in these cases.  In one of my other post where a friend had purchased a 86 and it stayed in the shop more than he had it for three year he was furnished with a car.  Lemons are made by all.


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## Iris Leuntjens (Dec 21, 2003)

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What is your e-mail address?  What all do you want?  I have a scanner so I can send whatever you want.  My direct e-mail address iscaac@msn.com.  Thanks!


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## Buddy (Dec 24, 2003)

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Hi Iris,
Thanks for responding to our forum on Call for Class Action Lawsuit on Unsafe MH" in the Talkback section. I also wanted to comment on the reply to your "Reasonable legal assistance" from RML714 who suggested contacting the CEO/President of the manufacturer of a problem motorhome as well as contacting the BBB of the area. Please help us keep the roads safe. Thanks for listening to this request.


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## Adamthegreat (Dec 24, 2003)

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kop


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## David_Rarden (Dec 24, 2003)

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Dear Adamthegreat ....  I for one, as a person that has been ripped off by an RV dealer, am offended by you post ... Are you an RV dealer perhaps?   have you ever been ripped off for all or part of your life savings?  are you really standing up against someone looking for a little sympathy and help for what they have been through? 

"Most"  RV dealers are nothing more than "Tin men" who have found a new method for fleasing the un-suspecting, honest hardworking couple of peace and happyness .... 

It turns out that trusting ones fellow americans to do the right thing in this day and age warrents being ripped off ...

I say, that we all have to stand together as one these days .. to help and to protect each other .... from all threats ... external and internal ... meaning bad RV dealers as well as others ....

Just my two cents worth ....


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## Adamthegreat (Dec 26, 2003)

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ooooookkkkkk....


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## docems (Dec 26, 2003)

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I know just what you are going through.  We purchased a 2004 fleetwood ax6 5th wheel from Virginia Rv Sales in Yorktown, Va.
This thing has been in the shop 8 times for a total of at least 3 months of time for multiple problems.  The lemon law in Va. does not pertain to trailers.. only vehicles with engines.  We have tried to trade it with no luck.. We have exhaused all avenues except to start an advertising scheme of our own or to sue the dealer and manufacturer.  That is still in the works but they did not charge us 20,000.  You need to look elsewhere and if you can't find anyone that will take the case, email me and I will give you the attorney we have out of Richmond Virginia.  Up to this point the warranty has been extended but we are not comfortable with just that outcome.
Good luck and Happy Holidays.
Art and Stacy


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## Iris Leuntjens (Dec 27, 2003)

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David and Dochem,  Have you read all that is going on in talkback?  If there is anything else that you would like to say or know from me please e-mail me atcaac@msn.com.  We will go forward, and hopefully make this right.  I look forward to hearing from you.


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## P &amp; P (Jan 14, 2004)

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Calif Has no lemon law for RV either.
I own a 2002 W-31 bounder and yes it is a lemon.
54 days in the shop in the first 6 months.
We still have 24 problems. 
At this time we have sue Fleetwood ent.,Dan Gamel RV and workhorse chassie.
What a mess.
Its to bad that fleetwood builds RVs with so many problems. They seem to have very good floor plans. Woo I said somting good about them? Sorry for that slip. 

Patrick


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## charles (Jan 17, 2004)

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Iris,
I'm and attorney in Louisiana. I  don't know the law in Iowa, but most state are fairly similar, and those that don't have lemon laws still have laws to protect buyers like you.  But, you have to get an attorney! State senators and politicos are not likely to help. You don't have a "political" problem, you a legal dispute and are supposed to go to a Judge. The attorney you talked too was too high, keep looking. I charge $135 per hour and you can find attorney in that range, or less, especially in smaller towns. You have to find one who is sharp, aggressive, upcoming,(young), yet still hungary for new business. Old guys who have all they can hanldle and more don't need your kind of case because it is aggravating. Client thinks we are  charging too much, and defendant is sitting there with an attorney who is a pro on these cases and has already handled a 300 or so for this client and knows all the ins and outs, so you know your in for a heated, tricky battle against a seasoned specialist in just this type of case. So, you worry about losing after a long and expensive battle, and if you  win client still is unhappy and thinks the fee was too high so attorneys tend to pass these cases up. They are on par with a child custody case, where Client is never happy with the results no matter which side you take,or  what the judge does, and always thinks the fee was too high. 
I do personal injury, medical malpractice, insurance  company won't pay cases,oil and gas (for landowners only) and serious contract disputes. I wouldn't take your case either for above reasons. It's not my area and I have plenty of problem cases where I have tons of experience and know what I'm doing.   However, if you will call me I have a  book that lists and rates (for talent and integrity) every attorney in your state. It's not always right, but you can at least tell who the other attorney's there respect the most. I will look up your town or nearby towns and give you some names to call --FREE, that's right free.  They also shouldn't charge anything to tell you on your first (very short) phone call if they handle your type of case and what their hourly rate is. (distinguished from and office visit that takes up 15-30 minutes of their time, and client puts them on the spot "Can you win?" (atty hasn't even hear the defense yet, which contrary to ALL the posts here, often turns out to be a real thorn cause dealer knows the law and exactly what he can do, and you don't--example he stalls knowning there is a short deadline for you to sue, return, and document your complaint in writing, fine print limiting warranty, etc.) 
You may have a hard time finding an atty because you don't have the type of case attorneys want, but there is a hungry/agressive/fair charging atty somewhere out there, always is - Your job is to call around until you find him. I'll tell you on the phone how to describe you case in a few words so he can decide quickly and get off the phone in a few minutes if he does't want the case.(thus no charge usually to you) Your not going to get anywhere until your lawyer notifies the dealer he is going to be sued. That may not do it.
Then you sue and then the whole deal is different. Now the dealer is looking at probably $200 -250 per hour for his hot shot atty and he fixing to spend some real bucks, because he's learned his atty can't seem to figure out how to settle until he's run up a bill of $10-20,000, so once you sue you have a LOT more leverage, and the dealer is a lot more willing to listen to you , like, how can he satisfy you  so you will go away. Maybe your best bet is to sue and then (give up your request he take it back and refund you, and agree to LET him to fix up the RV good enough so you can sell it and not feel quilty, or worse be sued yourself by the buyer, which is a whole "nother" problem. 
Some real good insurance defense attorneys in Shreveport only  charge $75 per hour (to the Ins Co -- volume discount to get all their business) so if you shop around you might find a good atty for a lower fee.  $20,000 up front was rediculous.  I've been practing 30 years and have never ask for that much up front.  But, we do like some up front so we won't be stiffed down the line. You might be able to  agree to a cap(maximum) on the atty fee and if you can't bluff and settle by then you can always stop the suit and simply withdraw. I've done that a lot when I realize, like your case, that nothing short of a suit is going to get the defendant's attention, but that so much equity is on our side he can't really afford the expense to go to trial and should settle. I tell client I may withdraw if I can't settle and/or  client wants to stop attorney fees.
I could go on forever -- legal stuff is very technical and tricky. 
If you want my recommendations call me at toll free 800 377 0123.
Tell secretary you are calling about a lemon RV and email I sent you.
I work with my son with the same name so ask for the father.
Charles (not name I really  go by but  it will work.)


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## charles (Jan 17, 2004)

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Iris 
I gave you the wrong phone number. That is my regular number (area 318).  My toll free number is 800 377 0127.   The other number would  work, but not with 800, it requires area 318 in front.
Charles


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## P &amp; P (Jan 21, 2004)

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To Iris
Unfortunatly charles is right and the best way to get thier att is to sue. Yes its expencive and time consuming. My att in calif charges 150. per hr this seems to be typ. I just found out that there is an attorney in my area that will do it on a coningent basis. This would have been a better avenue for us had I known. My bills are over 20,000 at this point. If we wern't paying the attorney we could be driving a new rv and let the bounder sit as it is now! ouch.
Hope the best for you.

PS when is someone(attoerny) Going to file a class action against fleetwood for thie treatment of cusomers/massive defects rear after year

pjj703@sbcglobal.net

Patrick


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## deanh (Feb 10, 2004)

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Ddi You try to write a certified letter to the C.E.O.? You can get thier names on the web site of the manufacturer. Try if before you spend money on an Attorney.


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## Iris Leuntjens (Feb 11, 2004)

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Dean,  No, I did not think of a certified letter. (Duh, I think my brain is fried.)  I did try e-mail, letters, phone calls, going through the dealership, everything else.  Thank you very much, can I contact you if I need more mental help?  I will give your suggestion a try.  Thanks again, Iris


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## deanh (Feb 13, 2004)

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Iris, You sure can. We wrote a certified letter to the C.E.O. of Four Winds., on a problem that we had with our 1 yr. old unit. It was safety related. We got a response in less then a week. The solution is supposedly in the works. Look up your manufacturers web page, get the officers of the company's names and addresses. And write a nice detailed letter telling them of your problems that you are having and that you are not a HAPPY CAMPER. Picture with a digital camera would help too. I will keep you all posted on MY progress [still in the works]. See my posting in GENERAL section under SEAT BELT PROBLEMS! Good luck DEAN     deanh64@comcast.net


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