# Synthetic Oil - Or Not?



## akjimny

Okay all, I need some advice here.  I've never used synthetic oil, but I have heard good things (good advertising???) about it.  I have a 5284 mile one-way trip, Alaska to Florida and vice versa, and that's pushing my comfortable oil change interval.

I have the 2006 Ford V10 engine with 63,000 miles on it, and have been using Penzoil 10W30 exclusively.  So far it hasn't had any oil issues (no burning or leaking) for 3 trips up and down the ALCAN.  I change the oil right before leaving and change it again as soon as I get where I'm going.

So, should I just keep on keeping on like I have been, or do you folks think I might should change over to synthetic? :question:  :question:  :question:  :clown:


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## H2H1

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

wow Jimmy that is a great question, one I can't answer. I know triple like synthetic oil and use it in all his vehicle. I also know he uses AL SOIL syn. oil. I bet by tomorrow he will have a good answer for you as well as some others on here who does use sny.


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## krsmitty

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

I would continue as you have been. What is the manufacturers recommended mileage for oil change? Bet it is more than 5,284 miles. Lot of people still change their oil every 3,000 miles, but with today's oil not really needed.


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## H2H1

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Ken S. I think you are right, I change mine at 3k, but I know I can go further on it. But since I do my own, and it is no problem for me to do it. I do use the same oil each and ever time. I also carry an extra 5 qt container plus a 1 qt and a filter just incase we are out and run over the 3 k limit. I know I am being over cautious but that is me  :laugh:


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## Triple E

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Like Hollis states I use Amsoil on all of my vehicle's.  Not only their engine oil but their transmission, rear-end and grease.

I worked on the North Slope back in the late 70's and started using it up there.  When I moved back to Washington I stopped.  Then in 1985 I bought a new Ford F-250 with the diesel engine and moved to the Northeast corner of Washington State.  Very cold winters and the Ford diesel had a hard time starting unless it was plugged in to AC with the block heater.  So I went back to using Amsoil and never had a hard time starting the engine again.  Block heater or no block heater.  The best part was the oil pressure would come up just as fast at a negative 25 degrees F as 65 degrees F.

My last oil change in my motor home was July of this year.  Before that it was July 2008.  However I have only put on 17K miles on that oil.  I put a new oil filter on every spring and do an engine oil analysis with the filter change.  I HAVE NEVER COME CLOSE TO FAILING AN OIL TEST. I just got a little nervous and went and change it this year even though the test said I did not need too.

Last April I pulled the valve cover off to have the valves adjusted.  I can not believe how clean this area under the cover is.  No sludge at all.    

So to answer your question.  Yes.  Cost is more.  Last longer and you are not buying oil from the Desert.   :approve: 

I am in no way connected to Amsoil except for being a preferred customer.  I am not an Amsoil Salesman.


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## H2H1

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Very good point Steve, I hope that I did not insinuate that you was a salesman, that was not what I was trying to say. I was just telling Jimmy that you are a syn. oil user and the type you use.


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## Triple E

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

No problem Hollis.  You know how some people can be so I thought I better make some sort of statement.  I know, that you know, that I am not.   :approve:


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## akjimny

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Steve - I know you like and use the Amsoil products.  I was thinking about using the Pennzoil synthetic, since I've had good luck with their regular oil.  Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thanks.

PS - Almost time to start loading up for the trip back to Florida (by way of Misty River).  I told Boss Lady I was going to drag ALL the food out and she could decide what she would or wouldn't eat.  Then I'm going to take her to the commissary and let her pick out three weeks worth of stuff to pack.  Hopefully I'll have freezer space for a salmon or two for the M&G.


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## krsmitty

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

I would still say no...Not sure if synthetic works any better or not. I have heard of those who say they get better MPG with synthetic??? I have also heard stories of switching from dino to synthetic causing some problems??? The extra cost for synthetic, is it worth it???


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## Triple E

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Well Ken all that I can say is you won't know until you try it.  I have not used imported oil for over 26 years with O problems.  Yes it does cost more or does it????  Changing your oil every 3K to 5K is just making the oil company's happy and the environmentals sad.

The only way that I can say this Ken is because I am faithful on doing an oil analysis and I have never failed one.  

On my cars I put around 20K miles before an oil change.  Also all of the new cars coming out these days are going synthetic.  Especially in the transmission.  I just bought a Ford Escapee Hybrid.  The manual states to use 5 - 20 W Ford synthetic oil.

Ok I will shut up now.  Have a good day.   :approve:


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## brodavid

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

good points from all, and Mr Steve , I did not think you were a spokesman or work for the company, just figure you found a great product and wanted all to know,


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## krsmitty

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

I agree Triple, each their own. I am a member of a Dodge Cummins forum and there are numerous members who swear by Amsoil and other synthetics. And just as many who can't  justify the cost. My owner manual says to change oil every 5k - 10k miles based on your driving. I change mine, along with fuel filter,  every 7,500 miles using the cheapest oil and filter I can find at Wally World. Been doing that on my last 3 vehicles, over 100k on each and no issues.


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## LEN

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

I run Syn on a couple rigs and not on the others. Reason is cost on each and use. With your use, if were me, I would stay with what you are doing now. Reason your not doing a bunch of short trips which is hard on oil. Your firing up and going 5000 miles is short time with long runs and good warm.hot motor nor the short cold runs that contaminate the oil. Now if you were talking running 10,000 and changing the oil once a year then I might consider the SYN.  JMO

LEN


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## Triple E

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?



The question I would really like to have an answer too is gas.  I know people who are stuck on Chevron like I am on synthetic oil.  Chevron always cost more but I don't know if is worth it.  I do know that I get worse mileage with Arco and Cenex but the rest seem to be about the same.   :question: The guy I buy from the Exxon station says it all comes from the same place. Any comments?



Len sorry I almost forgot. Are you back on your feet yet or are you waiting for more to be done?


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## krsmitty

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

I find the cheapest I can find. Even with diesel. Usually I buy at Wally World (Murphy) because I can get up to 10 cents off a gallon. I myself do not see any difference in MPG, but my Dad says he does not get as good MPG from Murphy when he is towing. He usually only uses Flying J when on the road.


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## H2H1

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Well, I like KenS I buy what is the cheapest, whether it Murphy's or raceway, or at the truck stop, my MPG has not changed. I D USE THE ONE WHO OFFER MORE OF A DISCOUNT. Murphy using Wal Mart card, flying J by using there card, and Krogers if in the area. I really does not stay in the tank long enough to judge if it good or bad


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## krsmitty

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?



> H2H1 - 8/19/2011  7:17 PM
> 
> Well, I like KenS I buy what is the cheapest, whether it Murphy's or raceway, or at the truck stop, my MPG has not changed. I D USE THE ONE WHO OFFER MORE OF A DISCOUNT. Murphy using Wal Mart card, flying J by using there card, and Krogers if in the area. I really does not stay in the tank long enough to judge if it good or bad



So true!!!!


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## akjimny

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Like most everybody else, I use the cheapest gas I can get to.  Sometimes the cheap gas is inaccessible in my motorhome, especially when towing my motorcycle trailer.  Up here in Anchorage Costco is cheaper than out on base, but the base gas station is easier to get in an out of, and they also sell propane.  I will use Murphy Oil, if available, but for personal reasons I no longer use my Walmart credit card.  $0.03 cent discount on 50 gallons of gas is only $1.50.

I think I will try the Pennzoil Ulta Synthetic for the trip home.  I think I can save the price difference by doing the oil change myself instead of going to Qwikie Lube.  Fingers, toes and eyes crossed - I won't have any problems. :laugh:  :laugh:


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## H2H1

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Jim I am like you I don't like to use the walmart card at Murphy . BUT when they offer .10 discount per gallon, well it was hard to pass up. If they go back to there standard cost I will not use them. Here at FT.Benning the gas is the same as RACEWAY just off post.


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## solovino

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

*Hi, I have been using Amsoil for a number of years in all my vehicles. And prior to that used Syntec from Castrol. Never had an issue. One thing to be aware of is using Synthetic in older vehicles may cause oil seal problems due to the material used in past years.  Also the type of oil filter used is important.  There are filters constructed of new nanofiber material that are superior in performance. I am currently adding a by-pass oil filtration system to my RV, so the oil will be triple filtered. If you don't intend on keeping the Rig for more than 5 years any quality oil and regular changes will do but if you want longevity the best is a must.  Check the Amsoil website for a wealth of information,  you can talk to a technician and ask specific questions.  Getting the oil analyzed is another option,  there are several companies that do this service and the cost is very reasonable.  I never consider MPG with oil, I want superior lubrication protection*.


2008 Honda Element,  1999 F150, Arctic Cat ATV, RV 1997 Lorado 8.3 Cummins

Hope you have trouble free Rving,  
Ken Hynes


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## akjimny

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Now if it would just stop raining!!! :angry:  :angry:  :angry:       But it's Fall in Alaska - that's what you get.


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## Triple E

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?





> solovino - 8/22/2011  10:47 AM  *Hi, I have been using Amsoil for a number of years in all my vehicles. And prior to that used Syntec from Castrol. Never had an issue. One thing to be aware of is using Synthetic in older vehicles may cause oil seal problems due to the material used in past years.  Also the type of oil filter used is important.  There are filters constructed of new nanofiber material that are superior in performance. I am currently adding a by-pass oil filtration system to my RV, so the oil will be triple filtered. If you don't intend on keeping the Rig for more than 5 years any quality oil and regular changes will do but if you want longevity the best is a must.  Check the Amsoil website for a wealth of information,  you can talk to a technician and ask specific questions.  Getting the oil analyzed is another option,  there are several companies that do this service and the cost is very reasonable.  I never consider MPG with oil, I want superior lubrication protection*.
> 
> 
> 2008 Honda Element,  1999 F150, Arctic Cat ATV, RV 1997 Lorado 8.3 Cummins
> 
> Hope you have trouble free Rving,
> Ken Hynes





Good point on the oil filter. I use Donaldson, Amsoil or CAT. Your point on the seals, I have a 1997 F-150. I have been using amsoil in it from the beginning and just turned 150,000 miles.  I have O leaks, knock on wood. :approve:


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## solovino

Re: Synthetic Oil - Or Not?

Actually when I mentioned older vehicles I was thinking of going back to years in the '60's or '50's.  I do know of people that didn't do research, dumped in synthetic, had seal problems or valve issues and blamed it on the oil, which was true but the produces of the synthetic oil would have cautioned them about the possible problems.  I find that today you have to do  a lot of research due to the changing technology.  I usually use Donaldson as well, just installed a By-Pass filter system for the Cummins 8.3.  Have been using Amsoil for a number of years in all my engines and am quite satisfied. Started out using Castrol Syntec in a modified Honda 550 motorcycle years ago and then more research led me to Amsoil.   Hope my F150 does as well as yours.

Ken


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## rudyhiebert

Jim M. Your question about "Synthetic or Not?" turns my crank because I've heard from truckers who wouldn't use anything else because their transmission and engine run cooler and save on fuel - #1. As far as brand goes, not all synthetics are the same so check out your options.


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## Cruzincat

I didn't see this thread earlier.  Probably too late to stop OP from switching from regular to synthetic after 63K miles on regular.  From what I have read (only- no experience), the molecules in the synthetic oil are smaller than the regular oil.  After running for a period of time, the seals become worn to the point where the oil molecules provide the actual seal.  If you change to an oil with smaller molecules, you may experience leakage.  Again, this is only what I have read and I have no links.  Just something I read somewhere and logged in the back of my mind for future reference.

If you are starting the engine and run it for over a half hour, so that it gets hot, just about every time you use it, you can probably go a lot further, on average, between oil changes.  Even if you don't do that, if you make a long trip of less than 6K, you should be able to do that unless you go ten miles stop, cool down, do ten more, etc. Then change the oil at the end of the trip.


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## akjimny

Final Answer - I chickened out.  Didn't change to synthetic - just went with my regular Pennzoil and Fram filter.  Changed the oil just before we left Alaska and soon after arriving in Florida.  5,300+ miles and no problems, so I'm a happpy camper.  My personal belief is that the recommended 3,000 mile change interval is a bunch of hooey.  Something to get you to bring your vehicle in for service more often and get you to spend more money.  Admittedly, if I was operating in a severe, hot, dusty environment, I would change oil more often.  But 300 - 400 highway miles every day for three weeks does not constitute severe operation in my opinion.


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## LEN

With the trip  you do I would stay with the old P-O 10-30. I would not worry about the 5000 mile trip as you do it with long drive times and all in a row. Most oil brake down is over short trips with no time for a good heat up and getting condensation and low heat particulate. If you go with syn I would do the P-O route to stay with the brand that the motor is used too.

LEN


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## krsmitty

akjimny;75028 said:
			
		

> Final Answer - I chickened out.  Didn't change to synthetic - just went with my regular Pennzoil and Fram filter.  Changed the oil just before we left Alaska and soon after arriving in Florida.  5,300+ miles and no problems, so I'm a happpy camper.  My personal belief is that the recommended 3,000 mile change interval is a bunch of hooey.  Something to get you to bring your vehicle in for service more often and get you to spend more money.  Admittedly, if I was operating in a severe, hot, dusty environment, I would change oil more often.  But 300 - 400 highway miles every day for three weeks does not constitute severe operation in my opinion.



Back in the earlier days it was recommended to change oil every 3,000 miles. But, with the newer oils, technology, additives, etc. it is no longer recommended/needed. The recommendation is to go by what what your owner manual recommends. Of course lots of businesses still say every 3k miles...for obvious reasons.


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## Pancanbob

Hi, Triple E
Could you tell me a little more about "Oil Analysis" 
Where do you send it and the cost?
Thanks
Bob


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## C Nash

I switched to synthetic in my 2002 V10 Ford Mh with no problems.  Think its a little overkill protection but I also do my own and can go longer between changing.  I also went to the syn transmission on the Ford because Temperture is what kills transmissions and the syn runs cooler. AJMO


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## Triple E

Pancanbob;75033 said:
			
		

> Hi, Triple E
> Could you tell me a little more about "Oil Analysis"
> Where do you send it and the cost?
> Thanks
> Bob



Sorry Bob, I have been off-line for a while due to Gator-Aid being dumped on my Laptop.  :stupid:  But I am back now.  :applause:  I send it off to Amsoil or take down to Western States CAT.  The cost for Amsoil is about $25.00 and takes about 10 days for the test to come back.  So I started using Western States.  The cost there is $15.00 and I get the results in about 3 days.  Also they draw the oil for the test so I know it is being done right.


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## H2H1

Triple E;75091 said:
			
		

> Sorry Bob, I have been off-line for a while due to Gator-Aid being dumped on my Laptop.  :stupid:  But I am back now.  :applause:  I send it off to Amsoil or take down to Western States CAT.  The cost for Amsoil is about $25.00 and takes about 10 days for the test to come back.  So I started using Western States.  The cost there is $15.00 and I get the results in about 3 days.  Also they draw the oil for the test so I know it is being done right.



well Steve I never knew your LT ran on gator aid,haha hope it did not do much damage. I just had to replace the Dell had a virus and the mother board was shot. Well there went my up grade in the MH.


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## Pancanbob

Hi, Steve... Thanks:applause:
So you had a Gator pee on your computer, You've got to train your pets better then that!!! 
Thanks for the information.. I look up "Western States CAT" you have them in WA, but they are not here in CA... 
Looked up Amsoil, found that they sell the test kits... so will order one when I'm ready to test it.. from what their web site said you go 25K or 1 year which ever comes first, then check it.. the report will tell you to change just the filter or the oil & filter sounds like a good deal, 
I just brought a case of regular oil :stupid: , so when that gone I will switch over to Amsoil   :excitement:
Take care
Bob


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## H2H1

hey Bob how many miles do you have on the Rexall? I have been advised by a local tech that I should not change over yet as my MH has only 33k on it. He say or reccommend that I change it to Amsoil when I get to 50k. But I think Steve may have something to say on that. I will wait and see what his response will be.


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## Triple E

H2H1;75094 said:
			
		

> hey Bob how many miles do you have on the Rexall? I have been advised by a local tech that I should not change over yet as my MH has only 33k on it. He say or reccommend that I change it to Amsoil when I get to 50k. But I think Steve may have something to say on that. I will wait and see what his response will be.



Well I say your tech is missed informed.  I say the sooner the better.  But what else would you expect me to say?    I have read test where the rings seat better with the synthetic oil on new or rebuilt engines.  My motor home had 24K when I fill it up with Amsoil.  If I had bought it new I would have started it out on Amsoil.


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## Triple E

Pancanbob;75093 said:
			
		

> Hi, Steve... Thanks:applause:
> So you had a Gator pee on your computer, You've got to train your pets better then that!!!
> Thanks for the information.. I look up "Western States CAT" you have them in WA, but they are not here in CA...
> Looked up Amsoil, found that they sell the test kits... so will order one when I'm ready to test it.. from what their web site said you go 25K or 1 year which ever comes first, then check it.. the report will tell you to change just the filter or the oil & filter sounds like a good deal,
> I just brought a case of regular oil :stupid: , so when that gone I will switch over to Amsoil   :excitement:
> Take care
> Bob



If you do switch over you should become a Perferred Customer.  This will allow you to buy at wholesale.  The cost is $20.00 but you will get that back on your first purchase.  :applause:  http://www.amsoil.com/a/wholesale-preferred-customer


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## Pancanbob

Hi, Steve & Hollis
My Rexhall has 11k on,  
I had heard that you shouldn't use synthetic oil till the engine has broken in, as you need to let the rings seat, but I don't remember where or when I herded it..... but it was a long time ago... getting old 

They have a lot of good information on testing  @  http://www.oaitesting.com/
As I said, I will use up the case of regular oil I just got, then change over to synthetic oil.
I did see on the web site (  http://www.amsoil.com/index.aspx  ) about the " Preferred Customer" and it looks like a very good deal
as Steve said you will make it up on the first purchase.
Steve do you use the G1206 Sampling Pump For Use With Oil Analysis Kits.
Thanks to all 
Bob


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## Triple E

Bob try calling this number to see if they will do an oil sample for you.  510-895-8400, they are in San Leandro, CA.  No, I bought a Fumoto Engine Drain Valve.  http://www.oildrainvalve.net/  I open the valve, let drain for a while, close the valve back to a slow drain and take my sample.  Western States CAT does use something like the G1206.  They pull the sample up from the pan via the oil Dip Stick tube.


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## H2H1

Steve if you would email/PM me what it cost. I am thinking of going to Amsoil this Spring when I change my oil for the trips.


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## Triple E

No problem.  PM is on its way.


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## vanole

Steve,

Not a synthetic guy but have you ever tried the AMSOIL product "Brightside Miracle Wash".  That stuff is a keeper.  Comes in spray can (comes out like shaving cream) or liquid form.  Leaves a nice shine and it is absolutely the easiest stuff I have ever used to rid the rig of black streaks.

Jeff


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## Triple E

No I have not.  Just went to the Amsoil web page and found it.  I have been using the Mothers Produsts and it works great.  I will have to give this stuff a try.


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## vanole

Steve,

I use Brightside then if I really have some time I utilize Mothers Detailing Wax (container looks like a little fire extinquisher) and together these two are really good products.

Jeff


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## Pancanbob

Triple E;75099]Bob try calling this number to see if they will do an oil sample for you.  510-895-8400, they are in San Leandro, CA.  No, I bought a Fumoto Engine Drain Valve.  http://www.oildrainvalve.net/  I open the valve, let drain for a while, close the valve back to a slow drain and take my sample.  Western States CAT does use something like the G1206.  They pull the sample up from the pan via the oil Dip Stick tube.

Hi, STeve
Thanks for the phone number and for the information about the Oil Drain Valve... it will keep me from having to clean up a mess when I do change the oil
Take care and have a grate long weekend 
Bob


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## H2H1

Bob and Steve, I have not gotten one yet, buy when I fine one I will buy the engine drain valve. Also Steve my fiter is a fram, 8377, I think!


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## Triple E

> Hi, STeve
> Thanks for the phone number and for the information about the Oil Drain Valve... it will keep me from having to clean up a mess when I do change the oil
> Take care and have a grate long weekend
> Bob



Yes this little valve does help with the mess.  Before I started using it my floor would be covered with oil.  Now I insert it inside a tube and put the other end of the tube in my oil collector.  Might get a few drops of oil on the floor but that is all.  :applause:


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