# sythetic oil



## Guest (Oct 29, 2007)

I know this has been brought up time and time again ,,,
But i have several customers who ask about syn.. oil in the coach and genset ..
I ,, reply i use it in both ...
They reply i have heard this does this and blah blah blah,,,
I was just wondering what the fulltiming and part timing think about this ,, other than the expense of the oil...
Most want it ,, but they want a good reason for the cost ,, i know what the oil companies say ,, but i want a good response from fellow rver's who use it  (besides myself) on the effects and benefits they seem to get ,,,
Thanks


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## C Nash (Oct 30, 2007)

Re: sythetic oil

730, I don't think it is necessary if you use a good quality oil and regular service.  That being said, I use in in the MH because I think it will hold up better in the conditions the MH is under. Think it will oil a little better than the conventional oils and withstand heat temp better.  As far as transmission we know that heat is the killer and most trans are undersized for the weight involved in MHs. I do not use in my regular vehicles. Just think the syn is worth the extra protection on the MH and a very small price to pay when you consider the price of a transmission or engine job on the MH.  JMO.


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## tinkerer (Oct 30, 2007)

RE: sythetic oil

I use synthetic oil in a couple of my vehicles that need to be started in very cold weather. I don't use synthetic old in my diesel motor home as I would rather change the oil more often as synthetic oil gets to be quite expensive. I don't know about transmissions but I have seen Cummins and Cat engine go a million miles in heavy duty trucks with conventenial diesel oil. We have farm tractor diesel with 7000 hours with the same oil. I would be careful of the extended oil change intervals that some of the synthetic oil companies tout. I ruined a 350 chevy engine with Amsoil that they were telling us to go 12000 mile intervals. I changed filters as recommened but the oil became like tar. They told me I must of had a slight anti-freeze seepage that caused the problem. They said I should be sending in samples to detect the problem. I decided that it was a lot simpler to use conventential oil and change it more often. The vehicles I use sythetic oil in I use Shell Rotella full synthetic oil, it's priced a quite a bit less than some of the others. The Rotella oil is rated high enough for just about any engine.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2007)

RE: sythetic oil

I agree on the oil change intervals ,, even though i use sythetic oil i still change my oil in the MH as per manufactured specs ,, even though the oil companies say not to... My newest car that i have 07 states in the manual to change oil @ 5,000 miles ,,, the little reminder light even goes off at that milage ,, but i change it every 3,000 no matter what ,,, JMO ,, but the cutomers pay my bills so i don't really want to lie to them but approach with a good oppinion of others ,, and being rver's they might take it better that way :approve: 
Bty ,, someone moved my keys around on my keyboard ,, i cna't type anything right tonight without going back and correcting it  :laugh:


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## TexasClodhopper (Oct 31, 2007)

Re: sythetic oil

There's no reason to change synthetic oil any sooner than the oil's manufacturer might recommend, but 12000 is a LONG interval!

If you are concerned (or just cautious from experience), you can easily just change the FILTER at shorter intervals. That way you are still cleaning at maximum capacity, but you are only going to need a couple of quarts between oil changes.

I use Mobil 1 and change around 5000 (earlier if 5000 will occur during a trip.)

PS. It is always an adventure reading posts from Rod (730).     :laugh:


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2007)

Re: sythetic oil

Hey Tex this is a job ,, not an adventure ,,,,,  :clown:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :8ball:
Bty this is the only way i get u fulltimers from going bonkers at u'r campsight :laugh:


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## Paul235 (Apr 8, 2008)

RE: sythetic oil

I know this thread hasn't been active for a few months but maybe its read from time to time.  I have to add some info to whats been discussed about synthetic oil.  right off the bat, I need to disclose that I sell Amsoil and have learned a great deal since I started using it and decided to become a dealer.  I do not want to sell you anything but you do need to hear the "whole story".  There is not another brand of oil that can do a better job than Amsoil.  Not just my opinion , its been proven over and over again in exhaustive(?) engine and tranny testing by certified labs.  Oil change intervals are set by time, miles by mfg's because the condition of the oil is unknown without lab analysis.  If you look at many large trucking outfits, they track the condition of engines, trannies, and gearboxes with analysis not guess work.  A $20 spectrographic test (only $20) will tell multiple things about your lubes and coolants.  It will let you know about bearing, ring wear, oil contaminants and lubricity and additive qualities.  I use an oil in my truck, wifes car, boat, motorcycle, MH and genset that is warranteed by Amsoil to last 37,00 miles or 1 year.  This not gimmicks or sales hype,  its being done all over the country by thousands of users every day.  I test my oil every 6000 miles.  Never had a bad test yet and don't expect any and also do not use any oil between changes.  I get better mpg's for far less cost (only 1 oil change/year) and better engine performance (more HP due to less internal friction) and cooler temps of the motor and tranny which means longer life.  

I have been a user of synthetic oil since the 70's (Mobil 1) since living in the north country.  Changed to Amsoil 4 years ago after checking out thoroughly. Motors start like its summer in the middle of winter! Oil also doesn't self destruct under heat like conventional oils do.  

Please check this out yourself.  Oil and lube technology has changed a lot and we need to keep informed.  I try to wring every mile I can out of my vehicles and usually do pretty well.  Look www.amsoil.com and www.mobil.com for more info.  The test info is there.  Challenge every claim that is made without proof from anyone including Amsoil.  They can and do back it up with certified testing and thousands of satisfied customers.  Look at their warranty on their website.  As far as I know, they have never had to pay anyone for lube failure.  

If anyone wants to know how I keep my MH lubed please ask and will explain.  This far to long a post and don't want to step on anyones toes.


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## DARLING (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

In all 4 of our personal vehicles we have syn. Have since the 1st oil change.  Honey changes them faithfully between 5000-6000 miles.  Our 98 Sportage has 158,000 miles & still going strong. N0 Smoke. Nothing.

As our MH is a diese(cat)  Honey says NO WAY is he puting syn in it.  As we drove truck over the raod for almost 15 yrs, we know what works for us. WE put almost 480,000 miles on our Mack before it needed broke down. Shell Rotella is all he will use.

Maybe he is old school... BUT you go  wtith what works.

Darlin


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## TexasClodhopper (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

Paul, welcome to the forum! That was some first post. Keep it up!

I want to hear more about your lube jobs on your vehicles.  And please feel free to write a book on it here, because it ain't costin' nuttin'!  :clown:


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

I put Amsoil in my Dodge Diesel years ago.  LOVED what it did to the running of that engine.  It was like I put another engine under the hood.

I stopped using it because of the dealer, not the product.  Currently I have Rotella Synthetic in my Duramax's.  

Paul, Where are you?  I might like to talk to you.


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## DARLING (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

Ken

Would you recommend Rotella syn in diesel MH?  Is there a cut off time in milage? Our new(to us) MH has 41k on it.  Is it too lae to start?

Darlin


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

I don't think it is too late to start.  I have always been told as long as the engine in is good condition and not burning oil, synthetic is safe.

Ask Paul his opinion.


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## DARLING (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

WE were told with our personal vehicles(all gas) you had to do it in the first couple of thousand miles.

I will have to tell Honey that there is a syn Rotella.  Maybe he will change.  or not :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh: 

Darlin


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

NO NO NO, you don't have to start then for sure.  

Synthetic Rotella is hard to find.  The last I bought was at Walmart, but now they don't have it.  You know wally world, one day something there, next day, NOT.  The Advance Auto here had it at one time also.


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## DARLING (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

LIke I said earlier.  He is old school.     Change comes slowly :laugh: 

Walmart, Sam's  they are both alike.  We usually buy our Rotella at Sam's.  One time they have it in stock.  They next time we have to wait a week or two or three.  BUt they have the cheapest price around here.

btw   How did your open house go :question:   Well I hope.   The guys did not come by & eat all your food & not buy anything.

Darlin


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

i went to the open house and i bought a couple of burgers and also some spice bread ,, but the food was for a good cause ,, it was to support the local FD and i;m all for that ,, and Ken is a great guy ,, and his wife is just wonderful ,, he has a good bussiness setup ,, and i wish him well in the future ,, ok my 2 cents worth    :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:


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## Paul235 (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

Its not too late to use a synthetic in your rig.  There are a lot of myths about synthetic lubricants and that is the most often quoted.  I never buy a new car, truck or MH's.  I try to find gently used ones that have lots of life left in them.  Nothing fancy but has to be dependable. If you carefully track your mpg's and costs as we do it comes out a great big winner all the time.  We highly recommend using an engine flush product before changing to our product to get rid of the gunk that conventional oil leaves in your oil system. You will be pleased and amazed with the results.  

Just want to make sure everyone understands I am an Amsoil dealer but in no way am I selling anything here but good solid info to make your own conclusions about how to best keep all this motorized stuff running well.  

Good RV'ing


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## Paul235 (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

What in particular do you want to know about my own vehicle lube practices?  I use the best oil that Amsoil sells because of lots of factual information thats published about testing by industry certified labs and test facilities.  I drive a 12 year old pickup with 118,000 miles on it and my distance traveled on a tank of fuel has changed from 275 miles to 310 miles.  The truck is driven the same every day to work and back on the same roads.  

My wifes car is a 5 year old Crown Vic. with 74,000 miles.  The initial change over last summer was done just before a long trip(6500 miles) and we averaged 23-24mpg's driving mostly 80mph on major interstate highways. This even after the govt screwing with the gas formulations with ethanol to keep the corn farmers making lots of money. The truck and car require no additional oil between annual changes.  They both also have had the transmission fluids changed and it is know good for 100, 000 miles.  When a change is done, everything is drained out including the torque converter.  This is getting more difficult on soma cars as it has to pumped out due to a lack drain points built in them by the mfg's.  Hope this helps.

I need to know a little more about the V10 in your Winnie.  Have you had any issues with it? I have read about spark plug problems from some people.  I also have a V10 in my MH with a Banks kit.


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## TexasClodhopper (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

I haven't had any trouble with my V-10 except the gas mileage. I think I'm getting near 30,000.

I wouldn't mind getting a 20% increase in gas mileage.

Except for the first oil, I've only had Mobil-1 in it. Would it still need to be flushed to add AMSoil?  My problem is finding someone to do it around here. That's how I ended up with Mobil-1; availability.


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## elkhartjim (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

FYI for analysis  http://www.blackstone-labs.com./tests_price_list.html


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## TexasClodhopper (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil



OK, what does the result of the test tell us?STANDARD ANALYSIS
Blackstone's standard analysis will tell you what you need to know about the condition of your engine and how it's wearing. The standard analysis costs $22.50 and includes the following:
*Spectral Exam*: Establishes the levels of wear metals, silicon, and additives present in the oil. Also checks for coolant.
*Viscosity*: Determines the grade of oil.
*Insolubles*: Quantifies the percentage of solids present in the oil.
*Flash Point:* Determines the flash point of the oil. We use the flash point to determine whether any contamination is present in the oil (determined when the flash is lower than the "should be" range).

Inquiring minds want to know!


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## elkhartjim (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

Whether you need to change your oil or not dummy.


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## elkhartjim (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

From an earlier post:   Oil change intervals are set by time, miles by mfg's because the condition of the oil is unknown without lab analysis. If you look at many large trucking outfits, they track the condition of engines, trannies, and gearboxes with analysis not guess work. A $20 spectrographic test (only $20) will tell multiple things about your lubes and coolants. It will let you know about bearing, ring wear, oil contaminants and lubricity and additive qualities


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## TexasClodhopper (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

And those of us with slightly more sophistication would ask, "Why do I need to pay $22.50 to know that I need to change the oil?"
.
.
.
Ya ding dong dummy.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

hey now this is what is called ,, fun on the forum ,, i like it ,, so keep it up ,, and bty tex is a oil dude ,, he likes to hide all the oil and let a anouther ,, rag head buy it from him and then he collects the royalities and then passes the big cost to us ...   :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:


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## Paul235 (Apr 10, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

I don't know of anything that can bring a 20% change in mpg's.  Maybe if you change driving habits, drive slower, draft big trucks and only go downhill it might change that much but I doubt it.  The lubricants usually make a 5 to 8% change.  Then due to the fact that most folks don't use Tier 1 fuel, we advocate using a fuel injector/valve cleaner every 4K miles to clean the combustion leftovers from pistons, heads and intake valves.  This makes a difference if you notice the idle is starting to get a little rough. I use it all the time in everything with a gas motor but not 2 cycle stuff.   You will also see an improvent in mpg's fromI don't think a flush would be needed from Mobil 1.  I have used it for a long time before being introduced to Amsoil and seen first hand how well it performs compared to conventional oils.  One of te things I look at is the weight of the oil filter after having been in service.  Conventional oils' broken down compounds are the major item trapped in filters.  Synthetics do not break down like conventionals and the light weight of the used filter is a good indicator.  I discovered that a long time before my change to Amsoil products.       

The beauty of Amsoil stuff is that it's dropped on your doorstep by UPS or NPS 2 days after you order it.  Most things are delivered very quickly.  I try to keep a few things handy that I know some of my customers will need things right away and don't like to wait a few days but most order online or on the phone.  We also have a few mini-warehouse we can draw from in a pinch.  The stuff is only a 800 call away.


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## Paul235 (Apr 10, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

Blackstones seems pretty much the same type of analysis that we use at Amsoil and also a local lab in San Leandro, Ca.  They are both certified labs using the same test methods specified by the major auto groups.  I will attach a pdf file that gives brief description of what is checked.


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## Paul235 (Apr 10, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

Bear with as the system doesn't seem to like my attachments.  This a summary about what is the standard items checked:


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## Paul235 (Apr 10, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil



After unsuccessfully trying to attach a few different files, I have provided the web site url for the lab I use. They also have a very good PDF that explains oil analysis much better than I could.  It looks like Blackstones does some of the same things but not everything is priced the same.  TBN is one of the most important things I look at.    



http://www.oaitesting.com/


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## Paul235 (Apr 23, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

Just got back from the first shakedown cruise of the new (to me)  Aerbus.  272 miles on 27 gallons of regular.  Speed averaged around 58-65 mph.  Trip included about 70 mile climb to 3500 feet and back again on th same roads.  I really didn't expect that kind of mpg's on a 35 foot gas coach.  We weren't packed to the max but water and gas tanks were full.  Is this average or above?


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## TexasClodhopper (Apr 23, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

I would call that 'above average'. My Winnie will get 7 - 8 around 60 to 65 mph.

I'm on a short trip now where I am trying to maintain 60 mph to keep the mpg up.


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## DL Rupper (Apr 24, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil

I change my oil every 5000 miles regardless of weather I use synthetic or not.  I get paranoid about the condition of the oil so I change it.  The Dodge diesel manual calls for an oil change at 7500 miles (if towing), so I figure if I change it every 5000 miles it doesn't matter if I use synthetic or petroleum based oil.  

It would be a waste of money for me to use the expensive synthetic oil and change it so often.  I would never recoup costs on increased miles per gallon.  My old Dodge Cummins managed to go 210,000 miles on petroleum based oil and it wasn't burning any oil.  The engine was good, but the truck was starting to need attention.

I do intend to put Amsoil in my manual trans at the next change.


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## Paul235 (Apr 25, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil



According to what I can come up with, your truck uses 10 qts and a filter for each oil change. Not sure what you use but what Amsoil reccommends for it is around $8.00 a qt. They also warranty it for 15,000 miles under severe service or 25,000 miles under normal service without oil analysis with their filters. The reason you change your oil now is the fact that it's condition is unknown and better to be on the safe side and get rid of it often. If I didn't know what the oil had in it I would dump it too. The catch is, I know whats in my oil and don't have to change it to sleep better at night. I would much rather know the condition for $20 than keep changing it for $100 a pop. That also doesn't take the fuel savings into account. We know the mpg's will go up with a good synthetic like Amsoil. How much would a 10% fuel savings put back in your pocket? It looks like reducing the price of diesel around here by $.42 a gallon.


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## Paul235 (Apr 25, 2008)

Re: sythetic oil



I stand corrected on the drain interval. If you consider your driving an "RV" this is what Amsoil calls for:C*ommercial or Fleet Vehicles, Long-Haul Trucks,                                   Marine Craft, RV, Off-Road Equipment*
                                                                    &bull; *Non-EGR equipped diesels* &ndash; extend drain intervals up to                                     two times (2X) the OEM* recommended drain interval or                                     one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil                                     analysis.
                                   &bull; *Pre-2007 EGR equipped or low emission diesels* &ndash; extend drain                                     intervals based on oil analysis or use the OEM* recommended                                     interval.
                                   &bull; Replace Donaldson Endurance&trade; or AMSOIL Ea&trade; full flow                                     oil filters at the time of oil change up to two times (2X)                                     longer than the OEM* standard interval, not to exceed                                     60,000 miles in long-haul trucks.


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