# Towing trucks



## Uponwheels (Dec 30, 2007)

I know our 5th wheel allows up to 16,000 lbs. of towing weight.  What are the best used trucks to look for - and why?
Thanks for anyones help.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2007)

RE: Towing trucks

What type of traveling are u planning???? Long trips short weekenders or such ??
Imo with that kinda weight i would look into a one ton ,, either gas or diesel ,, it's up to u ,, but a 3/4 would do the trick ,, but i kinda like the idea of 4 wheels on the rear instead of 2 ,, but then again this is JMO ,, since i have never owned a TT or 5er i'm not sure about the total facts ,, but i am sure Ken can help u out on this   
Ken take it away  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Dec 30, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

Gee thanks Rod  

I believe the 16,000 is the GVWR, which is not the UVW or Unit Vehicle Weight.  I know my 3/4 ton GMC Diesel is rated to tow 15,400 and my 1 ton is rated for 16,600.  Each would tow this trailer. 

A little more info would be appreciated.  Like 730 said, are these going to be long trips or short?  

I had a customer ask me on Sat about what truck to buy.  He told me he was headed to Alaska.  He really wanted a 1/2 ton to tow a small 5th wheel.  I told him going that distance, he should get a 3/4 ton.  Larger brakes, axle, bearings, etc.

Remember, pulling a trailer is only 1/2 the battle, you have to stop it also.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

not to get off topic here ,, but i see that Ken is getting near the 2,000 post mark ..
sorry ,, back to our program  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:


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## hertig (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

Fifth wheels have 3 values of interest.  'Dry weight' which is the weight empty from the factory.  This is not reliable as it does not include any changes made by the dealer and/or previous owners.  And towing an empty trailer is fairly useless besides getting it home.  The GVWR is the maximum the trailer is allowed to weigh.  And the 'pin weight' is the weight the trailer puts on the hitch, and thus on the rear axel of the tow vehicle.  Other values which are of interest are the CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity), which is the GVWR - the (true) dry weight, and the loaded weight, which is the actual weight of the trailer loaded for travel.  The easiest and best way to get this is to visit a scale.

When choosing a truck, the first thing to look at is the truck's claimed 'towing capacity'.  But keep in mind that this value is with no accessories mounted to the truck, no cargo and no passengers.  Just a 150 pound driver and a bit of fuel.  So, once you figure out what will be carried in the truck (best would be to weigh it with all stuff and people you will have when travelling), subtract this from the claimed towing capacity to get the 'true' towing capacity.  Also, RVs have wind resistance and the specified capacity is a flatbed trailer with 'no' wind resistance.  Thus, it might be safest to take a percentage (perhaps 80%) of the 'true' towing capacity.

Once you know what the GVWR (or loaded weight) of your trailer is, and find a truck whose actual towing capacity seems appropriate, verify that the pin weight will not cause you to exceed the GAWR (maximum rear axel weight).


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## ARCHER (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

Hey Rod, what is the difference between 2000 and 1161?


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

Quote from John: "the GVWR - the (true) dry weight"
Sorry to argue the point John, but GVWR is NOT the "true dry weight".  GVWR stands for GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING.  It is what the trailer, or vehicle, is RATED  to safely carry or weigh.

For example, all my Sunset Creek trailers have 5,200 axles under them.  That adds up to 10,400 lb. of carrying and braking capacity.  Sunnybrook states the GVWR is 10,000 on each and every Sunset Creek floorplan.  The 25' that is on my lot, weighs in at 5,856.  The heaviest Sunset Creek, on my lot, is 7,004 lb.  There is no way you will load any of these to the max. capacity of the axles.

I do realize you will put clothes, food, etc. in a trailer, and add to the weight.  The average person will not put in more than 500lb. of such.  (I am not figuring in the weight of water.)  A full timer and MH owner might do more, but the average weekender will not.  

I really wish you would not tell people that their trailer weights what ever the GVWR is.  A properly equipped 1/2 ton, rated to tow 7,500 - 9,000lb, will tow that 25', but if someone thinks it weights 10,000lb, they will walk.


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## Uponwheels (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

I really appreciate the info from all.  For the next 2-1/2 years it will be trips of short weekends, then when we retire (ha, ha) we will be traveling from the Pacific NW to Las Vegas to be with my inlaws.  We willwork parttime down there in our business, then when they are no longer around, we will just travel to whereever we want (and can afford,   .
Here's what the 5th wheel book says:  GVWR is 16,000;  UVW is 13,060, and then less the water, propane, people etc.  CCC for the trailer is 1696.  Not sure what CCC means.  
And yes, we want dually's and diesel.  It's interesting to know about the pin weight.  Do I find it on the truck?  Is that the same as the trucks rear axel weight?
We sure do learn a lot doing this.   :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh: 
Pat


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## brodavid (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

CCC = CARGO CARRYING CAPACITY or as Mr Tex says CAN CARRYING CAP, or the amount of stuff you can put in it. 
Hope this helps, Happy New Year

msjackie


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## DL Rupper (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

Pin weight is what the king pin on an empty RV will weigh when hitched to your vehicle.  In other words how much of the RV weight you will be carrying  in the bed of your truck when hitched.  For instance a 3/4 ton pickup normally can handle around 3500 lbs in the bed.  So a RV that has a king pin weight of 2200 lbs will give you excess carrying weight in your pickup bed or on your rear axle of 1300 lbs.  However, remember you will have the weight of the 5th wheel hitch and all the junk you throw in the back of the pickup that will eat up that excess weight.  Also when you load your RV, any weight you load up front in the RV will also add lbs to the RV pin weight.  Not sure if it is a lb for lb loaded calculation or if it depends on where up front the extra loaded weight is located. :bleh: Not sure if that makes any sense or not.  

My king pin weight is 2200 lbs and I have a Onon generator up front in my RV plus all of our clothes and my 3/4 ton Dodge rear end squats down to a level position when the RV is hitched.  Most newer Heavy Duty Diesel pickups don't have much problem carrying the weight of a loaded RV.  Stopping with all that weight is another story.  I wouldn't want to push the limits with a 3/4 ton, but the newer 1 ton diesels can handle around 5500 lbs in the bed.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

i guess just a bunch of numbers ,, but Ken is getting near  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Dec 31, 2007)

Re: Towing trucks

Usually the only place to find the hitch weight in print is in the brochure for the trailer, and then it is not always there.  The only way to find out what it is for sure is to weigh it.

If you have a way to do that, take your truck and trailer to a scale.  To find the pin weight, you will need to know what the truck weighs by itself.  Then hook up and drive the truck and trailer on to the scale leaving the trailer tires off the scale.  Simple math of the difference will tell you your pin weight.  Of course then you can pull the whole rig onto the scale and see what it weighs.  Again, simple math of the total and empty truck will tell you what the trailer actually weighs.


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## hertig (Jan 1, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

Sorry Ken, I was stating a mathematical fact, not a definition.   

CCC = GVWR - (minus) the empty weight 

is what I was trying to say and did kind of say, but I admit that my words and math interlaced with potential for confusion.  I would never claim GVWR = (equals) the empty weight, at least not while still sane (some claim I've already passed that point     )

And no, a trailer does not weigh its GVWR unless it is completely loaded.  However, it is safest to use that value AS A REFERANCE when matching it to a truck.  Except for Sunnybrook, apparently.  GVWR is a value you can count on, unlike the dry weight from the factory or an average weight of stuff used by RVers.  If your dealership weighs your trailers ready for sale and provides that to the customer, then that would be a value which could be relied on, and if a person also knew for sure the maximum weight of the stuff he would ever be carrying, then he could compute a Loaded Weight, which might well be substantually less than GVWR (almost certainly for a Sunnybrook), and use that value safely to match to a tow vehicle.

Your dealership is better than most, and it sounds like Sunnybrook is better than most, so my advice is of less use to people getting that trailer from you.  If everyone would buy Sunnybrooks, from you, I could shut up.  However, for everyone else, I feel it is good advice to keep in mind.  Particularly for people who want to tow RVs with 1/2 tons.  Even if a person drives off the lot with a well set up rig, there is a reasonable chance that future change in the people and/or contents of the trailer or truck will slip into overloaded territory.


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Jan 1, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks



John, 

We don't weight every trailer, don't have that kind of time. I have weighed several and found the UVW fairly close. We do have the Shipping Weight listed on our price tag. We have been thanked MANY times for that. Have been told that a lot of places won't tell a customer what a trailer weighs. 

On my lot last Saturday, there was a couple looking at the tag on the outside of the trailer. They saw 10,000 and actually asked me why our trailers weighed so much more than theirs. Their tag had 7,000 on it. I had to explain what GVWR and UVW meant. They told me no one else had taken the time to tell them.

I still don't agree that it is always close to empty weight. My personal trailer has a GVWR of 14,000 and weights about 11,000. *On the other hand*, I have also seen trailers under-axled and in that case, all bets are off.


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## hertig (Jan 1, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

Key, if you get the trailer from the factory and don't make any modifications, then the 'dry weight' listed should be fairly reliable, as should the shipping weight be.  Providing reliable indication of the weight empty is a big help to the customer in finding the right trailer/truck combination.

At least one of the dealers here strips stuff out when they get it (mostly stuff like batteries and spare tires and other stuff which would deteriorate).  They also may add/exchange stuff to make it more 'sellable' or profitable.  So the dry weight of their trailers is not reliable.  But if you ask how much it weighs, they will point to that now often obsolete dry weight.  For a used trailer as well, and who knows what the previous owners did to it.  Same dealer will tell you 'sure that Cooper Mini will pull a 50' travel trailer, no problem'...


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## DL Rupper (Jan 2, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

ALL you need to do is buy a BIG Bad Dodge Cummins Diesel.  It will pull/haul most anything. :approve:  :approve:  :approve:


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## Shadow (Jan 2, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

Unless your a Big Biker Dude, then a itsy bitsy little Ford will get it done !!!! :laugh:  :laugh:  Seriously get a one ton and you will be able to tow all but the higher end 5th wheels. Then you will need to consider an MDT.   JMO


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## PattieAM (Jan 6, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

Your CCC might not include the weight of propane tanks, battery, air conditioner, so you might be a little restricted as to what you want to stow in your 5th wheel (example:  cast iron pans, heavy duty extension cord, will weigh quite a bit and need to be considered).

As to the purchase of a truck to tow your 5th wheel, you need the gross weight of the unit (16,000 lbs) to use for tow capacity.  As already stated here, your tow vehicle will not only need to tow the 5th wheel, but must also stop.  I would consider a 3/4 ton pickup or larger just to play it safe.  Better to be safe than sorry.  You will stress less with the larger P/U as you climb a hill (worrying about that transmission), and the brakes are compatible to stop all that rolling weight.  I do not know if the "heavy duty tow package" is standard on a 3/4 ton or larger PU, but be sure you have the tranny cooler, etc.  And, as to weights, don't forget to add the weight of the passengers, dogs, and whatever gear you will be taking on your trips (that cooler with blocks of ice and several cases of beverage add up).


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## daytona7 (Jan 21, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

I'm looking into full timing.  Have a 2006 Chevy Silverado CC/SB 2500HD Vortec 8.1 liter Gas engine, 4:10 rear, Allison 6 speed automatic trans and factory installed class 5 hitch.  Certified interstate scales has the truck as 3580 lbs front and 2580 rear with 1/2 tank of gas.  Full tank, my 185 lb lard butt, 50 lb Springer and an additional 100 lbs of misc in the truck should bring total weight close to 7000 lbs.  Manual "shows" empty max trailer weight as 12,000 lbs and GVRW as 22,000.   Had looked at a 96 Cardinal 35 ft with 3 slides, NADA appraisal guide show empty weight at around 9000 lbs but was told this was too heavy to "Safely" tow with my truck.  Any suggestions on best all around TT or 5er size?  Will be traveling I75 to the OH, KY, IN area a few times a year, so whatever I get can not be so big or heavy that it would take over full control on the hills.  Another hitch is that I am retired living on a fixed SS and pension.


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## DL Rupper (Jan 21, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

Is the 36 foot plus Cardinal that only weights 9,000 lbs a TT?   If it is a 5th wheel it is made out of cardboard or somebody is pulling your leg.  My 30 foot, 2 slide, 5th wheel weighs 10,300 lbs empty and it is only 11'2'' in height.  

I wouldn't pull a 5th wheel over 32 foot with your truck or a 30 foot TT.  Just my opinion.  I like to err on the side of safety.


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Jan 21, 2008)

Re: Towing trucks

DL is right, that trailer weighs more than that.  Can't rely on NADA for accurate weights


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