# Help with RV Storage Condo Project



## risky business (Jan 15, 2007)

Last Tuesday we received approval from the City of Beaumont CA on our project of 104 RV storage condos. I have been working on this for over a year. I am glad the city approved it.

One problem- The City is requiring that we install propane detectors in each unit. (Every unit is enclosed). Upon talking to my engineers and general contactor, none of them have ever heard of such a thing.

Do you think it is a good idea, or should I fight it?

The project is at http://www.rvstorage.biz

Thanks

Ted


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## TexasClodhopper (Jan 15, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



It seems to me that you should be concentrating your questions in Beaumont CA. This forum includes RVers from corner to corner of the USA. 

And what the heck have we got to do with a municiple and/or engineering problem like that? 

Since none of us have a dog in that fight, why wouldn't you expect us to obviously go for the answer that means more safety? 

I sure don't get why you'd even think about asking for 'advice' here, unless you're just advertising your new place....


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## DL Rupper (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Well Ted.  A propane leak and the resulting explosion would pretty well level your new business.  Are the units connected?  If so, even if they are enclosed, the ones on each side will be leveled also.  Bottom line:  Most everyday RV'er can't afford enclosed RV condos, so I suppose your future clientele can foot the added cost of detectors in their monthly bill.  I pay $22/month for outside storage without detectors.  :bleh:


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## hertig (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

There's already a propane detector in each unit.  In the RV   

What do they expect it to do?  The ones in RVs make noise and often close a valve in the propane line.  One mounted in the unit could only make noise, and that would probably only be heard 2 or 3 units away.  The only thing which would make sense is a  sensor in each unit which notifies a central, always monitored, station.  But even then, what could you do?  Break into the unit and shut off the valve?  Don't make any sparks breaking in.  Fill the unit with some inert or counteracting gas?  Don't know if that is even possible.  Set off sprinklers?  Don't know that would help any.  

Insist on more information.  Make them justify the requirement, showing actual benefits, not warm fuzzies.


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## risky business (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



> hertig - 1/16/2007  7:39 PM
> 
> There's already a propane detector in each unit.  In the RV
> 
> ...



That is EXACLTY what my counter point was/will be.
The only addition is the City was not so much concerned about small leaks, but if the 40 gal tank decides to vent in the unit. Then what? There is no answer.


Thanks.


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

You are going to build 104 storage units.  A 40lb. cylinder leaking would be small.  A 40 Gallon tank is a very LARGE (almost 200lb.) tank and I don't know of any RV using one.


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## risky business (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Sorry, duplicate post.


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## risky business (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Read it again. 40 GALLON!! or 280Lbs Most Class A's (then ones using this type of storage) have 40 Gal.


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## Grandview Trailer Sa (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



I read what you said, pal. Again, that is a huge tank. 

Maybe someone who knows more about motor homes than I do will verify, *to me*, that they use tanks that big.

Personally, I think you need to re-read Texas Clodhoppers reply. I think his questions deserve answers.


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## risky business (Jan 16, 2007)

RE: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Here are the specs on a Country coach. Either a 19 or 39 gallon is available.
http://www.countrycoach.com/model.cfm?brand=all&my=07&section=specifications#28

An entry level Rexhall Aerbus gaser has 29 gallons.

http://www.rexhall.com/SpecsAerbusGas1.asp


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## risky business (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



> TexasClodhopper - 1/15/2007  9:43 PM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## risky business (Jan 16, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



> Grandview Trailer Sa - 1/16/2007  10:25 PM
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, I went back and read your post. You first said 40#, then went on to 40 gallon. I missed that. Sorry.


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## TexasClodhopper (Jan 17, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



"I didn't mean for you to get your underwear in a knot. Just looking for some objective points of view. If I have offended you, I am really sorry."

Aw, shuckins', Risky. Ah didn'knowd ya was alookin' at mah panties! Silly boy ...


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## DL Rupper (Jan 17, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Golly Gee guys.  This is fun! :evil:   Almost as good as politics. :clown:  We are sarcastic at times, but mean no harm Knots in your underwear.  That's a good one, I'll have to remember.  
Wish I could afford to put my rig in one of those units,.  The acidic Dayton, OH air is working its havoc on the outside of my RV.  Good luck with the bereaucrats.   :laugh:


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## Kirk (Jan 17, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

While it is true that said propane detectors in each unit would be of minimal value to the storage unit owner, it would very likely lower the insurance rate for the structure and they are not all that expensive to put in as well as the fact that it might keep the city happy! I would think that one could get 105 of them at a pretty low, per unit price. I really don't think that they are needed, but one has to pick their fights. One other thing, if you tell them that all RVs have their own propane detector, that would not be true for older RVs unless they were installed by the owner.


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## hertig (Jan 17, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

If it lowers the insurance rate comparably to the price of the detectors, that is worth considering.  If you do go with the 'the detector is in the RV' you might make it a condition of storage that there is either a detector in the RV or you install one on the unit for a specified charge.  

Then there are the false alarms which propane detectors seem to be subject to (i have to pull the fuse to mine every now and again since there seems to be no way to reset it; guess I'll have to replace my detector someday soon).  And keeping it powered (if it uses batteries).  

Here's a thought.  It would be nice if the units had exhaust fans to handle exhaust when running the engine and/or generator - perhaps this could be triggered if the propane detector goes off.  That would minimize the explosion risk (assuming the fan is non-sparking of course      )


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## risky business (Jan 17, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

The propane detectors I am looking at are hard wired, so batteries are not needed. The RV that do have detectors will only shut off the propane supply to the RV. The cities concern is the venting of the entire tank.

I am researching to see if there is a maxumium flow shut off of some type, so that in the even the tank does blow a relief valve, that the flow of propane is somewhat controlled.

Yes, the buildings are ventilated, and our Mechianical Engineer will be looking into the exhaust problem as well. A simple solution is to have vents at floor level to exhaust the propane out of the building, since it is heavier than air.

Thanks for all the great ideas. Keep 'em coming.


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## hertig (Jan 17, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Um, I don't think you want to get into making modifications to people's units.  I sure wouldn't let anyone add any strange extra valves to mine.


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## routabit (Jan 18, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Positive "floor sweep" ventilation should ease the cities mind.  It's hard to see propane exploding if it is ventilated well enough.  Also, you may want to add in vehicle bonding/grounding to ease their mind for static discharge.  Pretty dry out there.  At least only one unit might burn down if it did light off.  I'm assuming that these units would be much like any other stroage facility built with cinder block walls?  I would also assume they would have H2O, elect, and sewer dump in each unit if you're calling it a Condo.

If you don't mind my asking, how much are you planning to rent or least these spaces for?   :question:


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## risky business (Jan 18, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



> routabit - 1/18/2007  1:22 PM
> 
> Positive "floor sweep" ventilation should ease the cities mind.  It's hard to see propane exploding if it is ventilated well enough.  Also, you may want to add in vehicle bonding/grounding to ease their mind for static discharge.  Pretty dry out there.  At least only one unit might burn down if it did light off.  I'm assuming that these units would be much like any other stroage facility built with cinder block walls?  I would also assume they would have H2O, elect, and sewer dump in each unit if you're calling it a Condo.
> 
> If you don't mind my asking, how much are you planning to rent or least these spaces for?   :question:



H20 in each unit is a no-no. Too much risk of water damage. There are external water sources. Sewer in each unit is also a no-no since that would require water in each unit. There are two dump stations next to the wash rack. They do have indivdual electrrial meters for each unit. We are not releasing prices just yet. Go to the web site and enter your e-mail information in the reservations section and we will e-mail you all the prices when available.


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## routabit (Jan 18, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Well then isn't this just a fancy name for indoor storage facility so you can charge more?


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## risky business (Jan 18, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



> routabit - 1/18/2007  3:36 PM
> 
> Well then isn't this just a fancy name for indoor storage facility so you can charge more?



No. It is a concept that will actually cost less than renting similar units.


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## hertig (Jan 18, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

If I recall correctly, these will be bought, not rented.


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## risky business (Jan 18, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Yes, that is correct. They come with a deed, exaclty like any other real estate.


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## routabit (Jan 19, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Oh, I didn't know that and there may be a market for them with all of the Snowbirds we get down here.

Good luck!


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## H1Hummer (Jan 22, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

You should be able to use the same system that we have used when converting water heaters over to propane. We have converted 100's of water heaters on Government Bases from diesel to propane. The floor area will have to be sealed from the other units. Slope the slab towards the front/door. Install a "Spilway" such as a 4"pipe with rodent screen at the lowest point of the concrete. This will permit the propane gas to flow towards the "Spilway" and escape outside. The detector can be placed at floor level at the spillway. Hard wired of course and interconnected to the alarm system. This is a approved system for your problem. 
I have been following your project and am considering building one in Santa Rosa,CA. Very unique concept. we were going to build indoor rentals but I'm leaning towards your idea. If you have any questions I would love to talk to you.  
Hope this helps
Eric


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## risky business (Feb 10, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

I sent you a PM.


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## lhollatz (Feb 19, 2007)

RE: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Risky business is a good name for this project.  The one near me is in its fourth year and is not sold out.  Sounds like yours in that it has no water or sewer (not needed for storage) but has electricity.  It is heated as we are in cold climate.  The problem is they sell for about $200k to $250k (depending on size) and come with all of the problems of condo ownership.  The condo fee and/or CAM plus taxes cost me more than it does to rent indoor storage with 30 amp service.  The claim (like all condos) is you can sell it for more than you paid for it.  Pretty weak claim if original units have not sold in four years.

I wish you luck but I still prefer great indoor storage for less than condo fees and no capital investment.  Customer base is big boys with big toys and more money than brains.

Road House


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## risky business (Feb 19, 2007)

RE: Help with RV Storage Condo Project



> roadhouse - 2/19/2007  2:25 PM
> 
> Risky business is a good name for this project.  The one near me is in its fourth year and is not sold out.  Sounds like yours in that it has no water or sewer (not needed for storage) but has electricity.  It is heated as we are in cold climate.  The problem is they sell for about $200k to $250k (depending on size) and come with all of the problems of condo ownership.  The condo fee and/or CAM plus taxes cost me more than it does to rent indoor storage with 30 amp service.  The claim (like all condos) is you can sell it for more than you paid for it.  Pretty weak claim if original units have not sold in four years.
> 
> ...



WOW- no wonder they are not selling. 250K????? 
Our project is selling for around 78K. Yes, we have sewer, water, sprinklers (fire) clubhouse, electricity etc. The big difference is that storage in LA or Orange County California is getting pretty scarce and expensive. Our first phase sold out in 2 days. I have a waiting list of over 800 for the next phase. I doubt they will sit on the market for long.

Thanks for your input.


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## risky business (Feb 19, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

Just curious, where is the project you mentioned?


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## lhollatz (Feb 24, 2007)

Re: Help with RV Storage Condo Project

"Just curious, where is the project you mentioned?"

It one of the Premis projects in 
colorado listed in the links on your website.


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