# Questions about TWR and GCWR



## 5er4Life (Mar 16, 2006)

Im considering towing a toy hauler 5er with a 18000 GVWR. This would put me above my GCWR. However, the total dry weight (13265) added with the weight I intened to load into it (approx. 2500 lbs) and the exact weight of my truck with occupants (7325) does not exceed my limit (23500). So my first question is about legallity, Even though the acuall GCWR will be (23090) would It be legal to tow this 5er?

Now a bit about my TWR. I have been subtracting my acuall vehicle weight with myself at the wheel (7325) from my GVWR (9900) to figure my maximum tounge weight (2575). Is this correct? 
Also according to what i've seen I should plan to add about 20% of the cargo weight I load onto the 5er to the hitch weight, is this correct?
One last thought about tounge weight, If I upgrade my tires/suspension/etc etc to accomidate more TW will It be legal to tow over the GM stated maximums?

Anyone have an advil? lol!

I will be glad to provide any additional information if needed.

Chevy Silverado 3500 Extended Cab 4x4 Turbo Diesel 6.6L Weight w/driver - 7325lbs
GVWR - 9900
GCVWR - 23500
Reese 18k Signature Series 5er Hitch


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## team3360 (Mar 16, 2006)

Questions about TWR and GCWR

Question 1.  You can legally pull this toy hauler with the weights you have stated.                                                                                                                                         # 2 yes this is correct,9900 -7325 =2575  but that includes everything in the truck you are going to take with you in the truck including full fuel.                                                #3  its going to be hard to load 20% of cargo weight to the front to get it on the pin weight. the 5er should have a weights plate stating the pin weight .the general rule is 20 % of trailer gross weight will be pin weight.I have never looked into the pin weights of 5er toy haulers, but I would assume that the manufacturer has figured in the #4700 cargo weight when figuring the pin weight.                                                                                                                                 #4 You dont state what year your truck is ,but if it is still under warranty and you overload the truck by GM ratings that will void the warranty if GM has knowledge of this practice. Upgrading tires, suspension, is all it does,the drive train and brake system is still rated to pull/haul #9900.As for legal to haul over trucks rated limits I would say you would not have any problems as far as being stopped and ticketed for over weight(depending on lic. plate rating) but if you were involved in an accident,God forbid, the personal legal liability and  ramifications could be devastating finanically IMO dont overload it.    helpful ?   LEE


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## 5er4Life (Mar 16, 2006)

Questions about TWR and GCWR

Thanks for your response Lee, and yes it was helpfull. A bit more about my situation. I weighted my 05 chevy last weekend with occupants and cargo including reese 5er hitch and full tank of diesel for 7325lbs. It is my intention to safely tow 250-500lbs of extra TWR. I was figuring from dealer stated dry hitch weights and wanted to estimate my TWR with 2500lbs of cargo. Willing to upgrade drive train and brake system along with other modifications planned. Where would my money be best spent in the begining if I choose to upgrade as I go? I've been looking into airbag suspention and trying to find info on rumored 10 ply michelin tires.  I plan to be a fulltimer and I am looking for durabilty. Toy Haulers are appealing but the TWR is 250-500lbs over.


2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 Extended Cab 4x4 Duramax/Allison 
Weight W/Driver,Cargo,Fuel - 7325lbs
GVWR - 9900 GCVWR - 23500
Reese 18k Signature Series 5er Hitch
Reese Digitrac II Brake Controller (Inertia)
Reese 5er Wiring


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## hertig (Mar 16, 2006)

Questions about TWR and GCWR

You cannot upgrade your truck to have any higher ratings.  Even if you were able to physically accomplish the task (doubtful), the vehicle manufacturer would never certify it.  Without certification from the mfg, any warrantee is as risk, and if there is an accident, your legal liability would be increased.

If you need or want more capability, trade in the truck on one which meets your needs...

One thing you could do, is reduce the weight of the truck.  I think that 4WD adds several hundred pounds to the weight of the truck.


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## team3360 (Mar 17, 2006)

Questions about TWR and GCWR

5er4Life,  upgrades still will not raise the certified  manufacturers weight rating, but I would start with bigger brakes and the best pads.the air bags will help level out the rig when towing. Now let me share a little problem that has bit me to the tune of $5000 . I have an 02 chevy 2500HD crewcab 4x4 dura/allison. I had a trans problem in Sept. last year. I had 43k miles on it,dealer fixed it (I thought)$360,had not pulled anything till Dec, when we left for Florida, New Years Eve. I had problems from 500 miles thru-out the 1200 mile trip down .I put truck in dealer in Florida, reman trans ,$2000 labor only, GM goodwilled cost of trans. left to come home 10 days later, 350 miles north same problem,  got home next day put truck back in dealer,its been there 4 times for same problem , $2800 later , after speed sensor, rebuild transfer case, and now they changed the ECM and warranted that under 8/80 emissions, the problem I think is fixed.  Wrong diagnosis since Sept.GM corp. says someone MAY have put a horsepower upgrade in this truck ( They  said they cant prove it but because it might have happened they will not refund any money I have spent on these repairs for the mis-diagnosis of the problem. This truck has never had a power upgrade but they issued a notice in late 03 that any power upgrades will VOID warranty. They are using this get around having to reimburse me for the repairs under the MR GOODWRENCH warranty 12/12k.  They wont even warranty the new certa reman from allison, so be very cautious when planning your upgrades and new  mods. I guess you know what I think about General Motors Now ?%&^$^#.  The one thing I should say is I dont pull with full tanks. I never pull with fresh water( 8.9 lb per gal) on board, and very rarely with waste( 10-12lb per gal) in either tank ,so if you dont pull with loaded tanks you will probably never be over the limit. the 18k gross on your trailer is including water and waste in the tanks. most toy haulers I think have 80-100 gal fresh water tanks and 40 -80 x2  waste tanks so thats a lot of extra you wouldn't be carrying along.  Just some more to think about ???  LEE


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## 5er4Life (Mar 17, 2006)

Questions about TWR and GCWR

I hate to hear about GM's behavior towards power mods, probably will not keep me away from a banks 6 pack however   . Looking into the NorthWood Desert Fox 38' 5er, a very nice unit and with a dry hitch weight of 2020 and a Dry Weight of 11428 im completely in spec with plenty of room for a safty margin. Anyone have experiance with Desert Fox Toy Haulers? Thanks to everyone for your assistance.

2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 EC LB 4x4 Duramax/Allison
Weight W/Driver,Cargo,Fuel - 7325lbs
GVWR - 9900 GCVWR - 23500
Reese 18k Signature Series 5er Hitch
Reese Digitrac II Brake Controller (Inertia)
Reese 5er Wiring


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