# safari won't start



## webb (Feb 2, 2009)

i have a 1999 safari serengeti. here's what's not happening......when turning the ignition key to the on position, the wait for warmup (or whatever it is supposed to say) does not light up. turning the key to "start" does not turn the engine over.
when the key is turned to the on position i can hear a click which i assume is a relay. also when the key is turned to the on "position" i here another click.
I've had a diesel tech look at it but got me nowhere. He thought that it might be that the allison transmission is not in nuetral (it's an electronic pushbutton control and not a manual lever).

Anywone out there with any ideas?

cliff


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## dbarton291 (Feb 2, 2009)

RE: safari won't start



> webb - 2/2/2009  7:49 PM
> 
> i have a 1999 safari serengeti. here's what's not happening......when turning the ignition key to the on position, the wait for warmup (or whatever it is supposed to say) does not light up. turning the key to "start" does not turn the engine over.
> when the key is turned to the on position i can hear a click which i assume is a relay. also when the key is turned to the on "position" i here another click.
> ...



If nothing is happening other than a couple of clicks, you must first make sure the basics are in place.  Make sure the battery is charged and its cable connections are clean and tight.

Do any gauges or lights come on in the dash when you turn the key on?

Next, tell me which engine and Allison Transmission you have.  After those facts are known, I'll be glad to proceed from there.


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## webb (Feb 3, 2009)

RE: safari won't start

when the key is turned to the on position, the dashboard gauges become active. The engine is a CAT 325 and the transmission is an Allison 6 speed with electronic control.

cliff


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## dbarton291 (Feb 3, 2009)

RE: safari won't start

Good.  Next, I would check three things.  1.  Make sure the 12V ignition sense signal to the trans ECU is there when the key is turned on.  2.  See if the neutral start signal from the trans ECU to the neutral start relay is changing states.  3.   See if 12V is getting to the starter.

Do you have a wiring diagram for the vehicle?


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## webb (Feb 3, 2009)

RE: safari won't start

I do not have a wiring diagram. What is the ECU and do you have any idea where it can be located?


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## webb (Feb 3, 2009)

RE: safari won't start

Okay, I just figured out that the ECU is the Electronic Control Unit so can I assume that it is located under the gear shift control pad?


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## dbarton291 (Feb 3, 2009)

RE: safari won't start



> webb - 2/3/2009  4:15 PM
> 
> Okay, I just figured out that the ECU is the Electronic Control Unit so can I assume that it is located under the gear shift control pad?



It is most likely integral with the shift pad.  In some vehicles it is remote.  However, once you find it, you will need the wiring diagram to show you which cavity in the connector is the 12V ignition signal and which cavity is the neutral start signal.  

What kind of experience do you have in electrical vehicle troubleshooting?  With that knowledge, I can tailor my guidance for your situation.

Do you have a volt ohm meter?


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## webb (Feb 4, 2009)

RE: safari won't start

thanks for your input. I was an electronic tech before I retired but have little exoerience with vehicle wiring. I do have a VOM so let's go from there.

Thanks

Cliff


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## dbarton291 (Feb 4, 2009)

Re: safari won't start

Find the neutral start relay.  This may be tough without a schematic, I know.  Have someone turn the key on and see if you can hear it click.


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## dbarton291 (Feb 5, 2009)

Re: safari won't start

Just a thought.  In some vehicles, there is a vehicle interface module the OEM purchased from Allison. It contains the neutral start relay, as well as other things.  Its purpose is to make the interface between the vehicle and the Allison system more distinct.  It's a black square box about eight inches square and three inches or so tall.

Also, if the VIM is not used, some manufacturers have done a pretty good job of labeling their relays.  Some do not.

I'm not sure exactly what your vehicle contains.  Just some thoughts that may be helpful.


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## webb (Feb 5, 2009)

Re: safari won't start

I'll take a look at your suggestions. I can't get at it for a week or so but I'll certainly let you know how it works out.

Cliff


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## dbarton291 (Feb 5, 2009)

Re: safari won't start



> webb - 2/5/2009  3:41 PM
> 
> I'll take a look at your suggestions. I can't get at it for a week or so but I'll certainly let you know how it works out.
> 
> Cliff



Okay.  While you're there, if the neutral start relay is changing states, make sure you have a full 12 volts at the starter solenoid.  See if it clicks when the key is turned to the start position.  If the solenoid has a full 12 volts and is changing states, it  may be the starter itself.


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## webb (Feb 7, 2009)

Re: safari won't start

One more thing I wonder about. The "wait for warm" (or whatever it says glow plugs?) does not light with the key in the on position. Is that tied into the ECU status that you suggest I check?
cliff


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## dbarton291 (Feb 7, 2009)

Re: safari won't start



> webb - 2/7/2009  3:54 PM
> 
> One more thing I wonder about. The "wait for warm" (or whatever it says glow plugs?) does not light with the key in the on position. Is that tied into the ECU status that you suggest I check?
> cliff



Not that I am aware of.  If that's not coming on, it is likely this problem has nothing to do with the transmission.  Check the basics first.


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## Coloradorv (Mar 27, 2009)

RE: safari won't start

I just had a "no start" situation and turned out to be a broken wire (Pin 70) of the ignition bundle.
Sure you have it started by now.


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